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  1. #71
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    I think pain is an inevitable part of life unfortunately. Sometimes having healthy boundaries in relationships means hurting others. I hate it when this is the case, but it sometimes is. This is definitely a lesson I had to learn the hard way. Sometimes the things we do to avoid hurting others end up hurting everyone more in the long run.
    All of this.

    "Hurt none" isn't so much a value for me as it is a raw and irrational/emotional instinct - hurting others hurts. Rational consideration and experience has led me to adopt a rational value more like what Showbread is saying, moderating the instinct when necessary. Sometimes the right thing runs counter to what is comfortable to your temperament and others': that's the difference between a value and an emotion.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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    Kiss Kiss [johari] Bang Bang [nohari]

  2. #72
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangetshumody View Post
    There could always be those that attach envy to your achievements and works, but that doesn't mean you have harmed them by pride. The world is full of standards that compete and seek to dominate each other viciously; and therefore it is no surprise that any identity one assumes, when subjected to the judgement of those in the world- are going to be considered as harmful by someone's measure. But rather than vying with these possible competing perspectives with one's own style of vanity comprised of some 'no harm' standard (that would require a shared interpretation that can only function through some form of imposition to be of any enduring convenience), one could instead act decisively according to one's fully fleshed out image that one has of oneself in one's own understanding, upon which the spirit is set free in the liberty that is naturally discerned by one's informed heart of understanding.
    This is were perception is NOT reality. Someone thinking I have harmed them is not the same as my actually harming them at all. It is also where the idea of relative harm comes into play. If my younger sister, for instance, becomes discouraged by my accomplishments because she always feels inadequate when she compares herself to me, should I stop accomplishing things, or perhaps simply stop speaking about my accomplishments around her? Either of those courses of action would lead to greater harm than just continuing as before, especially if I make an extra effort to be encouraging to her, and remind her of the things she can do well that I cannot. Our needs and wants as humans have enough commonality that if we also remain mindful of our differences, we can usually make a reasonable assessment of likely harm.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #73
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is were perception is NOT reality. Someone thinking I have harmed them is not the same as my actually harming them at all. It is also where the idea of relative harm comes into play. If my younger sister, for instance, becomes discouraged by my accomplishments because she always feels inadequate when she compares herself to me, should I stop accomplishing things, or perhaps simply stop speaking about my accomplishments around her? Either of those courses of action would lead to greater harm than just continuing as before, especially if I make an extra effort to be encouraging to her, and remind her of the things she can do well that I cannot. Our needs and wants as humans have enough commonality that if we also remain mindful of our differences, we can usually make a reasonable assessment of likely harm.
    Anyone who knows how to utter the word "actually" can make a claim as to the "actual". How can your claim of 'actual harm' be anything but an imposition through declaring reality for yourself and others (and too the prejudice of another's competing claim)?

    [My example of this point being: "Either of those courses of action would lead to greater harm than just continuing as before"; I do not recognize this as necessarily true (according to your principle measure);- and so then I believe it is only with uniform interpretation of your principle can this principle ever become useful for justification. And morality without justification is going to end up as folly, because the lack of justification will make it impossible to make your moral schema actionable in the world (as condemnation of some form or another (especially legal), will conceivably impede proper exercise of the morality)].

    Your assessment only works when everyone applies the same measure of harm to particular scenario's which have to be examined by a similarly bound imagination which is naturally not common among all people.

    Whereas, when you are directed by a well formulated sense of who you are; that can then already guide you to select the right fire upon which to motivate your decisions. (Done so on a purely positive and entitled basis, and not done through weighing costs with calculation [which only allows one to select a lesser evil of sorts]. Because in mitigating cost and therefore seeking to manage evil, your never gonna get a really good outcome... because you have already forgone the hope of creating something (innately good) that will remain indefinitely (which I would argue can only be hoped for when intending to do something innately good [which is a different process based on giving authority to the right "discernment of meaning" which is an entirely different process than trying to extract meaning through a negative measure of calculating harm])).
    Escape powerful genjitsu by averting your gaze from the eyes.

  4. #74
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    I'd like to be able to answer yes but doing so would make me a liar.

  5. #75
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    I think my values are more utilitarian, like whatever does the most good or least harm is usually the best course of action.

  6. #76
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Ive heard of 'harm none' as the Wiccan Rede, basically meaning that if an action harms none, you're free to do it. It kinda makes sense, even if Im not Wiccan. Like I try to minimize the pain that I inflict on other humans, animals and to respect all forms of life, starting with my own, moving on to other humans and extending it to animal and plant life(respecting plant life, as sacred, as they can be destroyed, though I dont believe plants can feel pain or pleasure). I think it also means to me that if an action harms noone it can be done, but that doesnt mean I want it to be done. Sometimes there are reasons(such as choosing between two career paths) which would make an action or undertaking undesireable even if it harms none.

  7. #77
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    I try as much as I can, I try to avoid paying people to kill animals, and I try to avoid buying clothes made through unfair and unethical labor. The meat industry and sweatshops are the absolute worst things about capitalism if you ask me. It needs to be abolished. What's worse is how very few people actually seem to care at all. It makes me hate people. Of course, I would never befriend anyone who doesn't care about these things. Those who don't care are selfish and offensive savages, refusing to accept the wonderful ideas of solidarity, compassion and common sense! Harm none but harm those who deserve, is my way of thinking.

  8. #78
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    I think pain is an inevitable part of life unfortunately. Sometimes having healthy boundaries in relationships means hurting others. I hate it when this is the case, but it sometimes is. This is definitely a lesson I had to learn the hard way. Sometimes the things we do to avoid hurting others end up hurting everyone more in the long run.

    I am definitely opposed to unnecessary harm though.
    I dont really see how.

  9. #79
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    It isn't currently possible for us to lead anything approaching harmless existences; in order to survive, we have to destroy other life. So no, I don't really adhere to the value of "harm none," although I find it to be an attractive ideal that I frequently aim for in my dealings with others.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  10. #80
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Intentionally, yes.

    But sunday morning while I was driving the bus to a customer I faced harsh reality not once but twice as two birds decided to suicide into me.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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