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  1. #51
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post


    Ehm, just what exactly are we talking about here ... I mean, what kind of crime would a fellow human being have to commit to be as worthy as vermin or a petri dish of bacteria in your eyes? What causes a human being to suddenly no longer be a "higher lifeform" and lose their right to life and bodily integrity? Stealing a loaf of bread or bombing a kindergarden, where do you draw the line?
    Funny how the types that identify with felines are so soft and cuddle, but in the mean time, back at the ranch, they are vicious leopards, ready to rip out the throat of a poor mouse to eat, because they need to survive.

  2. #52
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Funny how the types that identify with felines are so soft and cuddle, but in the mean time, back at the ranch, they are vicious leopards, ready to rip out the throat of a poor mouse to eat, because they need to survive.
    I can not make head or toe of this answer. Can you please be more explicit?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #53
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    I can not make head or toe of this answer. Can you please be more explicit?
    claim: "I don't want to hurt any body"
    claim: "I'm like a cat"

    cats: "much on animals, hurts them in the process"

    the irony. the end

  4. #54
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    claim: "I don't want to hurt any body"
    claim: "I'm like a cat"

    cats: "much on animals, hurts them in the process"

    the irony. the end
    Sorry, still not getting it. You quoted me quoting you saying you had two catgories: one was not to be harmed and included higher beings and the other could be harmed and included vermin and criminals. What does a cat (or any animal) hunting for survival have to do with you making a distinction between criminal human beings and apparently all other vertebrae? A criminal is not punished for survival, he is not executed for food or for play (at least not in theory), so where does animal behavior come into play when we were discussing hurting fellow human beings? A cat does not hurt another cat unless they are fighting for territory, food or a mate all of which could be consideres questions of survival. None of that is the case when it comes to hurting or not hurting a criminal ... or is that exactly the comparison you meant to make? That we do have a social consensus to hurt criminal (by locking them away or other punishments) in order to protect out territory, food or mate? That is the only interpretation of what you said that sounds plausible to me and yet I would strongly disagree with that comparison. Help me out here, I still don't get it.

    Or were you referring to the thread in general and not answering my question even though you quoted me?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  5. #55
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Also, who in this thread said they were like a cat? I certainly didn't and yet you cited it as claim n° 2 as if you were referring to me. It's puzzling.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  6. #56
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I'm curious to see how universal this value is and what it means to people from different backgrounds and types. So do you adhere to it? Why or why not? And what does it encompass for you? How important is it to you? What drives it?

    Oh and it would be interesting to state your type first, and then answer, I think.


    As for me:

    ENFP

    I live and breathe this. Suffering is something I cannot abide to see and do nothing about - be it another human being, or any other living being. I don't watch the news for a reason and I'm part of several charities to do what I can. If I'm aware that I might've hurt someone - however minor - I feel immensely guilty, even if a part of me rebels and tells me 'they had it coming'. I feel everyone has the right to be themselves and not be punished or taken advantage of it or be exploited by others for it - that includes animals and more. Free choice and the pain of having that taken already makes me rage, however small. On the other end of the scale is deliberate torture of another living being - something that I just cannot fathom.
    I know you follow Wicca, and this is their creed, right? "If it harms none, do as you will."

    Causing harm is unavoidable, as long as one interacts with the world, in any capacity. It seems like it is more a matter of degree. Meaning, the depth with which one evaluates their every action, inaction and reaction. How far do you follow the ripple effect?

    I think, each of us, calculate, to different degrees of awareness, harm versus benefit, and choose accordingly. In this process of evaluation, we call upon an individually-assigned heirarchy of our values.

    Some of our heirarchies (nods to Maslow):

    Humans versus other mammalian animals versus non-mammalian animals like birds, reptiles, amphibians versus bugs versus plants, etc.

    Justice versus mercy

    Self versus Others (Loved ones, acquaintences, strangers we interact with, strangers we do not interact with, strangers we identify with in some way, straongers we do not identify with)
    etc....
    Last edited by Qre:us; 03-12-2014 at 02:23 PM. Reason: spelling error

  7. #57
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm actually not Wiccan, but I have a wiccan background, and yeah, that is their creed

    Thanks for adding your insights to the pot.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  8. #58
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangetshumody View Post
    I was talking about the quality of the judgement; The possible considerations created by use of the judgement might create the picture of a hierarchy; but the judgement itself is a scale comprised of two measures to be weighed against each other: this is the binary I'm talking about [the one measure being of 'good', the other measure being 'the harm'].

    The greater point I'm trying to raise, is that good is not a measure; that there is such a thing as "The good". It doesn't just exist as a description or quality that can be measured, it is the liberty one has through reason to do any measuring.
    I really don't understand what you are getting at here. Good is a quality, a subjective property of choices or events that can vary in degree, and also coexist with harm or other negative attributes. These are what one balances in attempting to make constructive, respectful choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zangetshumody View Post
    And so I think it better to work on this real development [of improving one's image (in the world) [or operation], and indirectly thereby [improving] one's environment], instead of an intellectual framework to accommodate the imbalances one can judge.
    What is to keep one from forming an image or identity in the world that is harmful? You have no standard here at all to help in choosing one course of action over another. The axiom of harm none (or do the least harm possible) is far from an intellectual framework, though one can certainly discuss it from an intellectual perspective. It is implemented to good effect every day by people of all backgrounds, inclinations, and walks of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    Justice versus mercy
    If there were more justice in the world, we would have less need for mercy.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #59
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Also, who in this thread said they were like a cat? I certainly didn't and yet you cited it as claim n° 2 as if you were referring to me. It's puzzling.
    I've said I'm like a cat, I probably have feline DNA, but I don't recall saying that in this thread. Well now I have. So if the person you're asking can time travel to the future and sees this post but got confused that they time traveled, I can see the confusion
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #60
    Junior Member rebeccaB's Avatar
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    I believe that we can do everything we want to as long as we don't harm anyone. The Wiccan Rede is a statement that provides the key moral system in the Neopagan religion of Wicca and certain other related Witchcraft-based faiths. A common form of the Rede is, harm none, do what ye will. Recycling is one of the many activities individuals are asked to do to be able to “go green,” and a few states will even pay for it. Regrettably, that means fraud artists will find a way to scam the system, such as when it comes to California, where recycling fraud is costing millions of dollars per year.

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