The GOD Thread~

[TheQuirkyArtiste]

I love Him!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^_^ <3 <3 <3

 

[Qre:us]

I did my best. The rest is up to God. Praying for you~

This is the most condescending sentiment ever. What a backhanded insult.

If the god you've found turns you into this, you might want to continue on with the search. For humanity's sake.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I am a firm believer in the Bible and follow these verses especially:


"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)


"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17)

If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22)

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods," do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)

Jesus: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke (19:27)

 

[iNtrovert]

I am a firm believer in the Bible and follow these verses especially:

Sigh Context is everything.You need to be honest with yourself about how little you actually know about the bible and its interpretations. For the life of me I don’t understand how people, Christians and non-Christians, claim to agree/disagree with what the bible says when they obviously haven’t even bothered to study it. It’s even worse when they try to be witty, sarcastic and arrogant about it flaunting their own ignorance and end up making a colossal fool out of themselves.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

This is an example of a hapax legomenon as the Greek word that is translated into “authority” is only used once in the scripture. When dealing with ancient witting we need to lean on the theme of the text or creed in its entirety as we do not glean meaning from a hapax legomenon.
The context of Timothy was a letter written by Paul to Timothy. The purpose was to instruct Timothy in how to deal with false doctrine pertaining to a goddess that was corrupting the early church. To support this the word woman is used and not women plural as to mean all women everywhere. So this text in context seems to suggest he is referring to the goddess specifically when he says woman.
Also, Phoebe is mentioned as being a savant. The Greek word for servant is diakonos which is deacon as deacons were servants of the lord. The words servant of the lord is best interpreted to mean deacon or spiritual teacher. We also know that Paul recommends phoebe for instrution in Romans 16:1 “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.” Historically it is said that she is the one who delivered the letter to the romans as Paul was not permitted to visit Rome at the time.
Finally in Galatians 3:28 it states “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” So there can be no spiritual distinction between male in female in the church for we are all on in Christ. So let’s recap
1 the word used that translates into authority is only used once making it a hapax lemoganon so we cannot us this verse for interpretation alone.
2 In context Timothy is mainly about the corruption of the church by a goddess. The singular from of the word woman is used opposed to women.
3 Phoebe was recommended by Paul himself to the Romans and is a spiritual servant known as a Deacon.
4 Paul the same man who recommended Phoebe accepting her as a spiritual servant or Deacon wrote the letter to Timothy
4 Galatians states there should be no distinction between male and female in Christ.

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

This was in wartime, as Samuel is a book of history. The nation was trying to come up against the nation of Israel. This was a conflict that was going on since the days of Moses. Exodus 17:15-16 Moses built an altar and called it The LORD is my Banner. 16 He said, “Because hands were lifted up against[c] the throne of the LORD,[d] the LORD will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation.”
It was only because of their unrepentant hatred for god and the nation of Israel that this was ordered. Keep in mind they are still under the Old Testament law that was always meant to be temporary and doesn’t apply in the New Testament after the coming of Christ.

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

Exodus is a law book the old law is fulfilled in the New Testament by Christ. It’s the same idea as the other quotes form the Old Testament law books, they were temporary. I address this point later in so I’m not going to go into this here.

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

No children were harmed Psalms is a book of Poetry. The person who wrote this was in captivity in Babylon and was expressing that for all the torment Babylon put them through they wished the same on them. Psalms 137:1-8
y the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
2 There on the poplars
we hung our harps,
3 for there our captors asked us for songs,
our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
4 How can we sing the songs of the LORD
while in a foreign land?
5 If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill.
6 May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.
7 Remember, LORD, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

Cherry Picking at its finest lol.. Ephesians 5:25-33
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
This clearly describes a give and take relationship. They are expected to respect and love each other equally.

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Slaves in this sense is not the same as American slavery. It was a type of servitude to pay off debts. The purpose of this verse was to point out no matter what class or situation you find yourself in do not dishonor god or your faith by being unruly in the face of adversity. Always remember not to lose sight of who you are because if you do people will say your faith has caused you to act out and you wont be able to receive the word of god.
1Peter 2:18
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17)

This was in war time against a nation that threatened Israel and they did not kill everyone.
“they slew all the males--This was in accordance with a divine order in all such cases (Deuteronomy 20:13 ). But the destruction appears to have been only partial--limited to those who were in the neighborhood of the Hebrew camp and who had been accomplices in the villainous plot of Baal-peor ( Numbers 25:1-3 ), while a large portion of the Midianites were absent on their pastoral wanderings or had saved themselves by flight. (Compare Judges 6:1 ).”

If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22)

The penalty for adultery in that time was death. Deuteronomy is a book of law. This is also an old testament text meaning that a lot of these laws were temporary. In John 8 we see this ideal of death for adultery passing away when the law of Moses is being used to condemn her
John 8:3-7
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods," do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)

Again Deuteronomy is an old book of law. In the New Testament the law was fulfilled by the death an resurrection of Jesus so we are not bound by the old law of the Jews. People are no longer put to death for idolatry but it is still wrong and if they do not repent they will be condemned for it.
Romans 1:21-25
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The chaper ends with saying thos that do these things are worthy of death but in Romans 2 it is made clear that only God has the right to punish them as we are all guilty of sin.
Romans 2: 1 -2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

Jesus: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke (19:27)

This was a part of a parable or story Jesus was telling and no one actually dies…
Luke 19 11-121And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
And the story continues to include the text in verse 27

My advice to you would be to do some serious intellectual study of the bible before you try to use biblical quotes to make a point. If you continue to operate under this horribly misconstrued understanding, it will be to your own intellectual detriment.

 

[skylights]

While I do empathize with the tone of johnnyyukon's post given recent goings-on in the thread, [MENTION=17164]iNtrovert[/MENTION], that was a really educated and well-written response. I enjoy learning more about Biblical translation and the contextual background. Thank you for sharing your understanding!

 

[iNtrovert]

While I do empathize with the tone of johnnyyukon's post given recent goings-on in the thread, [MENTION=17164]iNtrovert[/MENTION], that was a really educated and well-written response. I enjoy learning more about Biblical translation and the contextual background. Thank you for sharing your understanding!

No problem but this makes me want to go back through this thread and see what could make you gree with the tone of johnnyyukon's post.

 

[PocketFullOf]

I'm agnostic, I guess everyone is though when you think about it. No one knows for sure.

 

[iNtrovert]

I'm agnostic, I guess everyone is though when you think about it. No one knows for sure.

I'm not agnostic. Everyone is not agnostic. Stop it lol.

 

[PocketFullOf]

I'm not agnostic. Everyone is not agnostic. Stop it lol.

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable.

In order to not be agnostic you'd have to know for sure that God either exists or doesn't. That's why a lot of people call themselves agnostic theist or agnostic atheist. I'm not saying that everyone believes themselves to be agnostic or identifies with it, but on a certain level they are even so, I'm talking much more broadly, I'm saying that there is no way to know for sure.

That's why its called faith. I lean towards theism myself anyway.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Sigh Context is everything.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)


"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17)

If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22)

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods," do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)

Jesus: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke (19:27)



My B! I forgot you have to be a bible scholar to read all those crazy verses the way they were supposed to be read: in the bathing light of God's love!

I will devote the rest of my days to studying the bible so I can quote them on a forum showing how they are "just history" and old dusty laws and not the word of God. The guy who wrote Psalms was just ticked off and in jail when he wrote that kid smashing against rock thing. Ya learn something everyday!

Or wait, are they still the word of God? And wait again, so those were old laws and just history, so the rest of the bible is too? See, darn it, I'm confused again.

Off to earn my PHD in Bible Scholarism! I was a fool to think the Bible isn't clear and to ever try to read it without an expert close by!

 

[iNtrovert]

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)


"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man. (Numbers 31:17)

If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. (Deuteronomy 22)

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods," do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)

Jesus: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke (19:27)



My B! I forgot you have to be a bible scholar to read all those crazy verses the way they were supposed to be read: in the bathing light of God's love!

I will devote the rest of my days to studying the bible so I can quote them on a forum showing how they are "just history" and old dusty laws and not the word of God. The guy who wrote Psalms was just ticked off and in jail when he wrote that kid smashing against rock thing. Ya learn something everyday!

Or wait, are they still the word of God? And wait again, so those were old laws and just history, so the rest of the bible is too? See, darn it, I'm confused again.

Off to earn my PHD in Bible Scholarism! I was a fool to think the Bible isn't clear and to ever try to read it without an expert close by!

Thus your desperate attempt to justify your ignorance goes to show how bias and ignorant you truly are. You don't need to be an expert or genius to read things in context. If someone tells you the all the women who sing rock a bye baby to their children have postpartum depression, are a danger to their children and should lose custody of them immediately because they're cheerfully singing about them falling from the top of a tree you're going to call them an idiot. Why? Because you understand the history behind it. You know that it's cultural context and tradition. You know when someone says it raining cats and dogs there is no need to call animal control.

Historical text or text of any kind ,not just the bible, need to be read and understood in contect.If you’re too intellectually lazy to at least try to understand just admit it, close your mouth and cling to you bias. You will remain ignorant and no one will care. In addition I never said that the bible didn't have devine authority. There is doctrine involved there are instructions and truths in the bible but there are also genera’s for the books of the bible by which we understand them. It doesn’t take much effort you can google it. They even have some with colorful pictures so you don’t have to think as hard.

If you're not going to respond to my arguments with actual challenges instead of exalting your own ignorance, playing it off like the average person doesn’t have the ability to comprehend historical text, you have no right to mock people that say “I don’t know so god did it “because you’re just bad if not worse. Just like non-believers are always telling believers "don’t go around quoting/ believing stuff you don’t even understand" follow your own advice and remain silent. On the other hand you can just keep talking and look like a fool. I’m actually looking forward to the latter it’s more entertaining for me that way.

 

[iNtrovert]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Didn't like that turtle comment eh...lol. I never argued with you. I just said you are igorant of scripture and therefore have no business trying to quote it. To which you responded with something to the effect normal people can't understand it. Then I told you to stop making excuses for your ignorance.You could just go back and read it for yourself.. I mean this did just happen....and you were there unless you didn't actually read what I wrote.

 

[johnnyyukon]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Didn't like that turtle comment eh...lol. I never argued with you. I just said you are igorant of scripture and therefore have no business trying to quote it. To which you responded with something to the effect normal people can't understand it. Then I told you to stop making excuses for your ignorance.You could just go back and read it for yourself.. I mean this did just happen....and you were there unless you didn't actually read what I wrote.

1. women subservient to men. So if I look, I'm going to find zero verses about women being subservient to men? And If I find more, it's actually just a translation error, or hapax legomenon, as you say (sounds like *coughbullshit)

2, 3, 8, 9 Old Laws, we just put them in there for history for some reason. So nothing in the Old Testament is valid today? Why is it even included? Shall I find verses from the New Testament only? I can do that. I have a few in my back pocket.

4. Psalms is just poetry

5. So you can’t love your subordinate wife? are you saying the bible does not say women should be subordinate?

6. So slaves weren't part of the law in the Bible, or if it was, it was the Old Testament right? Which you've said can pretty much be ignored. Shall I see if there are any other uses of the word in the New Testament?

7. confused, so they did or did not kill the boys and women who slept with men?

10. Ok maybe it was a parable.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Are we glorifying God here?


Introvert, how do you know so much about the Bible?

 

[iNtrovert]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Your main problem is you have little to no understanding of the bible itself. The bible is the documentation about the fall of man, man’s separation from God through sin and the way in which God reconciled himself to man first through the Jews then to the Gentiles.

The Old Testament deals largely with the fall of man and God taking the first steps to reconcile himself with man through the Jews. God tried to govern the Jews directly but they were stubborn and did not listen so he gave them a set of specific rituals to follow so that they even before the coming of the Messiah could live a holy life set apart from the gentiles, this is what the law books are about. The law books were established with Moses which is why they are called the laws of Moses. The first 5 books of the bible are law books. They tell us about the fall of man establishing why we need the law, talk about how the nation of Israel was established and why the law was given to them and they also tell us what the laws were and how they were revealed.

The next 12 books or so are History. Just as there are lessons in modern history there are lessons in biblical history so it’s important. We learn about Israel and a nation and how god dealt with them and why.

The next set of books are poetry. They are filled with song and parables. We get cultural poems of praise despair love joy. Parables of wisdom and of folly.

The Next 17 or so book are books of prophesy. They foreshadow the coming of the lord and the way he will reconcile himself to not just the Jews but the entire world.
The next 4 to 5 books are the gospels. These books are the prophecies being fulfilled by the birth death and resurrection of Christ. This is also the start of the New Testament in which the old law of the Old Testament is fulfilled and the new law is established. Jesus through his teachings, miracles death and resurrection was establishing the new plan of salvation so that everyone could live holy if they chose to follow him. The Jews wanted to be god’s specials snowflakes and denied him which brings me to the remaining books. Paul’s letters to the church and general letters are the foundation on which Christians today formed their many doctrines.

So it’s not that the Old Testament and things and laws are just there. They are important and we can learn things from them but the New Testament is where we found our doctrine today.

 

[iNtrovert]

Are we glorifying God here?


Introvert, how do you know so much about the Bible?

I read it, study it and read historical and biblical commentaries. I also go to a good church who teaches doctrine and has always encourage me to know what I believe. I've never been formally trainned. I know what I know because I take it upon myself to know it. I almost became an atheist when I was like 18 and said psh this is a load of crap. In an attempt to put my religious beliefs to bed once and for all I started studying the scripture in-depth and found truth. I found I had good reason to believe what I believed and I've been doing my best to carry my cross since then. I've come a long way since then and I'm just realizing how much I've grown witing this reply. God is truly a good God because I almsot didn't make it lol

 

[skylights]

No problem but this makes me want to go back through this thread and see what could make you gree with the tone of johnnyyukon's post.

Haughtiness and disdain for difference in belief. Some believers seem inclined to take it upon themselves to play the role of God and act as judge, jury, and executioner. Recently it was put forth that non-believers are mentally deficient unless they either convert or kill themselves. Ironically those without a written code of ethics often seem to behave more civilly. That sort of sentiment is what makes me empathize with his tone, regardless of my personal beliefs. Ironically I have come to this thread before to celebrate what I believe, but I find it hostile ground, and certainly not the sort of homage any Divine I believe in would deem virtuous.

 

[johnnyyukon]

[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Your main problem is you have little to no understanding of the bible itself.

Yes, I have not devoted my life to the study of the Bible.

But you're wrong if you think that's a problem.

Thanks for the summary.

 

[iNtrovert]

Haughtiness and disdain for difference in belief. Some believers seem inclined to take it upon themselves to play the role of God and act as judge, jury, and executioner. Recently it was put forth that non-believers are mentally deficient unless they either convert or kill themselves. Ironically those without a written code of ethics often seem to behave more civilly.

I see well that's too bad. I can only tell you what the bible says, I can't make you accept it. Every person at the very least has the right to accept or deny it.

 

[Beorn]

Haughtiness and disdain for difference in belief. Some believers seem inclined to take it upon themselves to play the role of God and act as judge, jury, and executioner. Recently it was put forth that non-believers are mentally deficient unless they either convert or kill themselves.

And some members either have reading comprehension difficulties or intentionally misrepresent the viewpoints of other members.