The GOD Thread~

[Mole]

Hey, do you mind expanding on this, even a little bit? I'm curious as to what you mean.

It's called the God of the Gaps. Whenever we don't understand something natural we invoke God as the meaning. So God fills in the gaps in our understanding of the natural world.

 

[gromit]

It's called the God of the Gaps. Whenever we don't understand something natural we invoke God as the meaning. So God fills in the gaps in our understanding of the natural world.

FALSE... not what I mean at all...

 

[Mole]

FALSE... not what I mean at all...

Look ol' Gromit, the meaning of any communication is its response. So the meaning of your communication is my response.

My response can't possibly be false because it is the meaning of your post.

And what you mean is irrelevant, because the meaning of your post is my response.

If you are a half smart little gromit, you will run with this, and make your reply the meaning of this post.

Or is this too much to ask?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I am a non-trinitarian Christian in the traditional sense of the term. I believe in the trinity, but not in the way it is currently used in the Nicene Creed.

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD, about 300 years after the death of Christ. Calling Jesus God is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think those at the Council of Nicaea knew any more than I know about Christ's divinity.

Christianity mainly means believing that Christ is the Messiah, as Effem said.

 

[JAVO]

People I detest, exist. If my kid wants to call me Boba Fett instead of Mom, what do I care as long as they love me and do their best? If there's one God, then we're all talking to the same one, and there's nobody else for it to detest to resent us calling it.

Not a good argument. Boba Fett was kinda badass.

It's called the God of the Gaps. Whenever we don't understand something natural we invoke God as the meaning. So God fills in the gaps in our understanding of the natural world.

Kind of a sweeping generalization for all but isolated primitive cultures, don't you think?

 

[inventor]

I am a non-trinitarian Christian in the traditional sense of the term. I believe in the trinity, but not in the way it is currently used in the Nicene Creed.

The Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD, about 300 years after the death of Christ. Calling Jesus God is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think those at the Council of Nicaea knew any more than I know about Christ's divinity.

Christianity mainly means believing that Christ is the Messiah, as Effem said.

Yup

If the Nicene Creed was so important it would of been in the bible. The bible is only clear on a couple issues about doctrine

1. The resurrection of Christ happened

2. Jesus came in the flesh

3. And circumcision, and other ot laws are no longer needed.

Everything else Christians fight about are just made up.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yup

If the Nicene Creed was so important it would of been in the bible. The bible is only clear on a couple issues about doctrine

1. The resurrection of Christ happened

2. Jesus came in the flesh

3. And circumcision, and other ot laws are no longer needed.

Everything else Christians fight about are just made up.

The Bible doesn't say number 3.

 

[inventor]

The Bible doesn't say number 3.

It does say circumcision is no longer needed. At least I though it did, could be wrong.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It does say circumcision is no longer needed. At least I though it did, could be wrong.

It does. Paul does. I just don't think that Paul has the right to change the Law and the Prophets. I think he has the right to help us understand how to be a good Christian. But not change God's Law. In the New Testament, only Jesus has the right to change God's Law.

 

[Coriolis]

The mindset that isn't fair to God is the one of calling Him by other names, especially names of gods and goddesses. If you were a parent, would you like your child to call you by the name of someone you detested? How much more strongly does our Creator feel about us lumping Him in with The Universe, or gods and goddesses? Yes, to you, it might feel the same, but it isn't the same. Especially not to God.

When you love someone, you give them respect. More than anything God wants us to love Him. If you are calling Him by another name, you probably don't know Him very well.

He loves you so much He is always watching you, waiting for you to notice Him! Why don't you try loving Him, which starts by calling Him by His name. God, Elohim, or Adonai.

Do you think God is offended by those who call him Gott or Dieu or Bog? How about Allah? All of these are simply other words for God. What if we call him Jesus or Christ? It's not such a leap from these names to all the others. If there is only one God, then all those god and goddess names can refer only to one thing.

It works the same with people, too. Here I am Coriolis. On other forums, I have been known by other names. At work, I am sometimes Dr. [lastname]. My niece and nephew call me Auntie [first name]. My mom used to call me honey; my SO sometimes does, too. And my friends and coworkers all call me by the name I detest: my given first name. I don't feel disrespected by this. I am used to it, and happy for their friendship and collaboration. To insist on something different would cause needless confusion and awkwardness. The different names reflect the fact that I am different things to different people, though ultimately the same one "me". If we limited humans can manage all this, so much more can the omnipotent, omniscient divine. I think he/she, too, would be happy if only people did call out more, whatever name they were comfortable using.

It does say circumcision is no longer needed. At least I though it did, could be wrong.

Bible verses like these suggest that circumcision is indeed no longer needed:

Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Mark 12:28-31
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

"The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.”

To me, any denomination that has as its central tenet salvation based on Jesus' death and resurrection is Christian. That's why it's called Christianity. The rest is window dressing. I'm sure most Christian denominations would disagree with that simple a definition, but that's because they have their own dogmas. Hence some evangelicals saying that Catholics aren't "real" Christians and several denominations saying Mormons aren't "real" Christians. They can hardly be expected to view the matter objectively. But we should.

My sentiments exactly. My experience with a variety of Christian denominations as a substitute organist bears out the vast similarities and (to an outsider) relatively minor differences.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Do you think God is offended by those who call him Gott or Dieu or Bog? How about Allah? All of these are simply other words for God. What if we call him Jesus or Christ? It's not such a leap from these names to all the others. If there is only one God, then all those god and goddess names can refer only to one thing.

It works the same with people, too. Here I am Coriolis. On other forums, I have been known by other names. At work, I am sometimes Dr. [lastname]. My niece and nephew call me Auntie [first name]. My mom used to call me honey; my SO sometimes does, too. And my friends and coworkers all call me by the name I detest: my given first name. I don't feel disrespected by this. I am used to it, and happy for their friendship and collaboration. To insist on something different would cause needless confusion and awkwardness. The different names reflect the fact that I am different things to different people, though ultimately the same one "me". If we limited humans can manage all this, so much more can the omnipotent, omniscient divine. I think he/she, too, would be happy if only people did call out more, whatever name they were comfortable using.

God should be referred to by His name. Whatever name that is that a person chooses to call Him, of course. I was not giving an exhaustive list in the three examples I stated for His name.

However, referring indirectly to God while calling Him a deity's name is not okay. Just like referring to God when saying general usages of references to 'The Universe.' A person either believes in One God and One Entity, or they don't, or they are unsure. It can't be both ways.

 

[Coriolis]

God should be referred to by His name. Whatever name that is that a person chooses to call Him, of course. I was not giving an exhaustive list in the three examples I stated for His name.

However, referring indirectly to God while calling Him a deity's name is not okay. Just like referring to God when saying general usages of references to 'The Universe.' A person either believes in One God and One Entity, or they don't, or they are unsure. It can't be both ways.

It's a bit like that old joke about the surgeon who wouldn't operate on the boy injured in a car crash that killed his father, explaining "he's my son!". At first, it seems impossible for the surgeon also to be the boy's parent, until you realize she is in fact female, and the boy's mother.

Put another way: God is a deity. For those of us who believe there is only one God, God is THE deity. Any names for deity must therefore refer to this one, because it is the only one. Objecting to the use of these names because they refer to other deities admits the existence of other deities, which violates the first premise.

 

[prplchknz]

I posted this in the random thought thread. but I feel like it fits here. so I'm gonna repost. It's how I feel about things, simplified

once upon a time there was a cat, and the cat went meow. Also the cat was the supreme ruler of an universe he was sooo cute but also could lay down the law. he hated dogs so he made them pussies, not in the literal sense. SO the dogs were jealous cuz they were scared of everything. And the cats loved the CAT because they were made in his image. so One day the dogs decided they had enough, so they went after the CAT and lost, of course and the CAT bannished the dogs to crates for all eternity. the end

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

God should be referred to by His name. Whatever name that is that a person chooses to call Him, of course. I was not giving an exhaustive list in the three examples I stated for His name.

However, referring indirectly to God while calling Him a deity's name is not okay. Just like referring to God when saying general usages of references to 'The Universe.' A person either believes in One God and One Entity, or they don't, or they are unsure. It can't be both ways.

I think you need to ask God what [insert non-gender pronoun that isn't derogatory like 'it'*] wants to be called before you give [*] the name derived from a language of a group of advanced barbaric tribes that slaughtered each other and those who dared enter their isle. Maybe God just wants to be called Ahura Mazda of Zoroastrianism (and Angra Mainyu at the same time), Deus of the (actual) Roman Catholic Church, or maybe [*] even wants to be called something from a Pagan denomination, like Baal or Odin.

 

[five sounds]

This whole name thing is like talking about circumcision. The whole point is that the physical, the external doesn't actually matter. It's the spiritual that does. What we do is often a manifestation of our spiritual condition, but it's secondary and is of very little importance on its own.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's a bit like that old joke about the surgeon who wouldn't operate on the boy injured in a car crash that killed his father, explaining "he's my son!". At first, it seems impossible for the surgeon also to be the boy's parent, until you realize she is in fact female, and the boy's mother.

Put another way: God is a deity. For those of us who believe there is only one God, God is THE deity. Any names for deity must therefore refer to this one, because it is the only one. Objecting to the use of these names because they refer to other deities admits the existence of other deities, which violates the first premise.

You seem very argumentative here. And I'm not really sure what is to be argued about. Trifle debates about what name should and should not be used for God debases those who engage in them.

Simply put, there is only One God. Whether you are Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, or anything else, that doesn't change. What you call God does matter because to call Him by a name intended for a deity (even though He is the only Deity), disrespects Him somewhat. Just as calling you by an incorrect name disrespects you. If someone doesn't know better, then okay. But if a person says they believe in God, then refers to God with a name other than representing God, then they do not know God well enough, nor love Him enough.

For example, I have an infp friend who says she loves God and believes in God. Then the next day she might speak about great spirits, or The Universe or some other vague term in place of saying God. This makes me wonder why she does this? GOD is 3 letters. Why not just use His name?

I think it's because a person does not want to submit to the notion that there really IS only One God, and/or a person wants to stay 'respectful' of all beliefs at the cost of hurting, and being disloyal to, God.

This is your quote from earlier which I was originally referring to:

I have come to believe that there is only one divine entity, that encompasses male and female, and any other human distinction imaginable, and of course transcends all that is human as well. The world's religions are just so many ways to try to relate to that divinity, and our many Gods and Goddesses just so many names for him/her. It is not wrong to relate to God primarily through one of these ways, as long as we do not deny the validity of someone else relating in another way. How we relate will also change through our lives, as we grow and what we need evolves.

It is wrong to relate to God as one of many deities.

You don't need to believe the Bible to experience faith or follow a religion; and you don't need to follow an organized religion to develop your own spirituality. Ultimately, it is that intuitive realization that is paramount. All the writings and rituals, teachings and traditions can at most serve as cross-checks and guides along the way. There is no substitute for what you honestly believe inside, and no one can walk your path for you.

The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? ~Jeremiah 17:9


I have committed so much sin believing in my own heart, and using my mind as my main compass. It just doesn't work. We need rules and guides to keep us on God's great path.

The Bible is the greatest book ever written. It surpasses all other holy books and is a divine bridge to knowing God's covenants to us, and how He desires us to be obedient. Yes, His Holy Spirit is a part of the trinity, but it only comprises one-third of what we need, along with His Law and the understanding of the Gospel of Christ. Not only that, but a person won't clearly hear the Holy Spirit until he is obedient. And how can you be obedient if you don't know God's Law?

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

It is wrong to relate to God as one of many deities.

Why?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Why?

Because He is the Great Sovereign LORD Almighty. He is not one of many deities.

Jews didn't even utter His name aloud because they feel He is so sacred and reverent. Have some respect for your God.

 

[Coriolis]

You seem very argumentative here. And I'm not really sure what is to be argued about. Trifle debates about what name should and should not be used for God debases those who engage in them.

I don't agree with you. If you consider that being argumentative, so be it. Your insistance on using the names you prefer for God suggests that it is far from a trifle for you. To call deity by a name intended for a deity seems perfectly in order. Yes, many faiths involve pantheons of many gods and goddesses. Some people view these as distinct spiritual entities. I, on the other hand, see all of them as different manifestations of the one single deity. Many Christians observe the trinity. Muslims have the 99 most wondrous names of God. Why stop at 3 or even 99? God, after all, is all things, infinite.

The Bible is the greatest book ever written. It surpasses all other holy books and is a divine bridge to knowing God's covenants to us, and how He desires us to be obedient. Yes, His Holy Spirit is a part of the trinity, but it only comprises one-third of what we need, along with His Law and the understanding of the Gospel of Christ. Not only that, but a person won't clearly hear the Holy Spirit until he is obedient. And how can you be obedient if you don't know God's Law?

People have made the Bible into one of the most influential books ever written, which is not quite synonymous with greatness. It surpasses all other holy books for those who find their greatest inspiration there. Others find other writings greater, or even the knowledge that cannot be found in books.

I seek not to be obedient, but rather to understand my place and purpose in the universe (which I see as the creative manifestation of deity) and to fulfill it. "God's Law" is thus the laws of the universe: gravitational attraction, conservation laws, thermodynamic laws. In short, the laws that cannot be broken, and which all of creation obeys by our very consitution.

This whole name thing is like talking about circumcision. The whole point is that the physical, the external doesn't actually matter. It's the spiritual that does. What we do is often a manifestation of our spiritual condition, but it's secondary and is of very little importance on its own.

This is, of course, fundamentally correct. On the other hand, we have been created as physical, sensory beings in a very physical and sensory world. We have a hard enough time understanding our own humanity at times; how can we hope to comprehend the divine? Anthropomorphizing deity and approaching him/her through what is familiar, using all of our (divinely given) senses may look like a crutch given the true primacy of the spiritual. But it is sure useful in helping to bridge the gap, as well as bringing much pleasure, beauty, and joy to life.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I don't agree with you. If you consider that being argumentative, so be it. Your insistance on using the names you prefer for God suggests that it is far from a trifle for you. To call deity by a name intended for a deity seems perfectly in order. Yes, many faiths involve pantheons of many gods and goddesses. Some people view these as distinct spiritual entities. I, on the other hand, see all of them as different manifestations of the one single deity. Many Christians observe the trinity. Muslims have the 99 most wondrous names of God. Why stop at 3 or even 99? God, after all, is all things, infinite.

Oh, I would agree that other religions are often referring to God whether they realize it or not, but the ideal way of referring to God is with clear consciousness of His Being and His status as our LORD. Wouldn't you agree? Of course the number of names does not matter. This is a complex topic to post about.

People have made the Bible into one of the most influential books ever written, which is not quite synonymous with greatness. It surpasses all other holy books for those who find their greatest inspiration there. Others find other writings greater, or even the knowledge that cannot be found in books.

I seek not to be obedient, but rather to understand my place and purpose in the universe (which I see as the creative manifestation of deity) and to fulfill it. "God's Law" is thus the laws of the universe: gravitational attraction, conservation laws, thermodynamic laws. In short, the laws that cannot be broken, and which all of creation obeys by our very consitution.

God desires obedience over sacrifice or offerings. ~1 Samuel 15:22

Your place is to serve God and to please Him. He made you for a purpose. How can you know that purpose if you are cut off from Him? God's Law is not the laws of the universe. Those are the natural laws that the world must obey. We, as God's children, must obey His special Law for us. Otherwise, we are no better, no more special than animals--we are not the higher beings He created us to be--because we are functioning as any other creature would function, in obeisance to natural laws. It's 'natural law' to want to procreate with many sexual partners, but it's not God's Law.