The GOD Thread~

[inventor]

The Trinity is an article of faith of Christianity. Those who don't subscribe to the Trinity are not Christians. They are Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Members Church of God International, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, The Church of God, International and the United Church of God.

It's hard to say who christain, and who isn't.

 

[Mole]

It's hard to say who christain, and who isn't.

Why would you say that?

Christians profess their faith. They have a Profession of Faith. This profession is well known and well worked out. Those who profess this specific faith are Christian and those who don't, aren't.

So either you don't know what a Christian is, or you have a non Christian belief but want to fly under the banner of Christianity.

For instance, Mormons have a non Christian belief but regularly tell me they are Christian. But when I question them closely, even they will admit they don't profess the Christian faith.

So are you like the Mormons or is it you genuinely don't know what a Christian is?

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Religion is revealed to us by God. So we only know God by revelation. So religions have dogma by necessity.

If you don't accept revelation then you are thrown back onto direct mystical experience of God.

And when narsissists publishing selfies tell me they have direct mystical experience of God, I say, big claims require big evidence. But the evidence is never in evidence.

I think the proof of God's existence lies within the self, and It's not something that I, nor anyone can prove to you with any evidence that you would accept. You need to look for yourself.

 

[Totenkindly]

THANK YOU. I want to get this printed on cards to hand out whenever this topic comes up. I believe exactly as you do, and yet participate in Catholic services, which many people find loony. It's simply the way I was raised to relate to God, and so it's where I feel the divine.

I'm still trying to figure out whether I'm a fallen believer or a skeptic searching for god, but I totally understand this -- the faith is the expression of your connection and is essentially a matter of individual diversity versus something that is more right or less right than some other approach.

On a related topic, I hate when people hold religion against God. For example, "I don't believe in God because people do (insert offensive act) in his name." It's like saying "I don't believe in charity because the Salvation Army hates gays". Humans are imperfect, and that means that their endeavors will be imperfect, even those that are truly good. Everyone sins, and that fact is not an argument against God, or even against the concept of religion.

Agreed. It's kind of like besides the point as to whether humans fail and whether there are even some bad apples in the mix. Anyone in any kind of philosophy or belief can be a hypocrite, but it says nothing about the belief itself... except maybe how hard it might be to live up to, at worst.


... as far as "who is a Christian," I suppose whatever majority faction has ownership of the overall religious doctrine at the time gets to decide that. There are a very steady basics, but otherwise people will accuse each other of being apostates over the dumbest things.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

God is in the space between us...

Hey, do you mind expanding on this, even a little bit? I'm curious as to what you mean.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

The Greatest Commandment

The LORD thy God, the LORD is One! You shalt love the LORD thy God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[commandment 2 of the 10]: Thou shalt have none other Gods before me.



Nice thread progression. I can't wait to read it all more carefully. Lots of responses since last night.

The mindset that isn't fair to God is the one of calling Him by other names, especially names of gods and goddesses. If you were a parent, would you like your child to call you by the name of someone you detested? How much more strongly does our Creator feel about us lumping Him in with The Universe, or gods and goddesses? Yes, to you, it might feel the same, but it isn't the same. Especially not to God.

When you love someone, you give them respect. More than anything God wants us to love Him. If you are calling Him by another name, you probably don't know Him very well.

He loves you so much He is always watching you, waiting for you to notice Him! Why don't you try loving Him, which starts by calling Him by His name. God, Elohim, or Adonai.


God Bless you all Type C. I do love you.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Well my problem with the whole Jesus, and bible thing is the bible is 50% violence, god acts like Zeus, and war, and the other is ok, but that 50% I cannot accept.

I know what you mean. I was only a little girl, attending church when the Abraham/Isaac story was read. I thought how can God demand a man kill his own son??? On top of that, all the animal sacrifices didn't go down well with the young animal activist that I was. It literally made me veer from God, and pushed me along the path toward atheism.

But the Bible must be read in order, from beginning to end. Because that is the best way to hear a story, and to read a story, to understand it. We need the context of the OT before we can truly place the NT in its proper place.

Reading the stories of war is difficult to understand. One thing that must be kept in mind is that men ruled the day. Anywhere men go, war is left in their wake. There are some times God prescribes annihilating a certain peoples, but usually that is when the people were such bad idol worshipers that there were hardly any who even believed in God. So that the Chosen Ones could prosper and survive, God felt in those cases it was a necessary sacrifice. He never likes to destroy His creation. It's always a last resort. Most of the time, however, in the wars of the OT, it is the kings who are hungry for more land or power or have vengeance in their heart. Even if they query God whether to go to war or not, it is still their idea and their action that wages the war and are responsible for the resultant destruction of peoples.

I have made peace with the story of Abraham and Isaac because I have lived something similar. Anyone who continues walking with God and getting closer to Him, will face these exact same challenges! Maybe not killing your child, but certainly being faced with two roads: clinging to an earthly object or even loved one, or clinging to God. God ultimately wants to test us to know we would be willing to put Him first. But that is only after a long road of growing closer and closer to Him. His tests get harder and harder as you grow with Him, but also more meaningful. And just like a long-term relationship, these tests and trusts make us bond more with our Creator. Our Master.

This is a good way of putting it. Religions that believe in reincarnation sometimes teach that suicide is just a way of avoiding whatever lessons this life has to teach you. If you don't work through the lesson in this life, you will see it again in the next. Sort of a metaphysical analog of history repeating itself.

Thank you. I really have to say I believe Hell is this. It's earthly existence among each other, and the resultant evil tyranny that manifests among non believers and disbelievers, and the brew of our human natures.

 

[inventor]

Why would you say that?

Christians profess their faith. They have a Profession of Faith. This profession is well known and well worked out. Those who profess this specific faith are Christian and those who don't, aren't.

So either you don't know what a Christian is, or you have a non Christian belief but want to fly under the banner of Christianity.

For instance, Mormons have a non Christian belief but regularly tell me they are Christian. But when I question them closely, even they will admit they don't profess the Christian faith.

So are you like the Mormons or is it you genuinely don't know what a Christian is?

I never claimed to be a Christian, what I'm saying is you have billions of people all on this planet saying they are Christian with all very differ views on what a Christian is. I've read the bible cover to cover, and have studied it for over 10 years, and you can look at one verse, and easily get a thousands ideas on what it means - all non conclusive. So when someone talks about true Christians, and fake Christians I scuff at the idea.

 

[Ivy]

The mindset that isn't fair to God is the one of calling Him by other names, especially names of gods and goddesses. If you were a parent, would you like your child to call you by the name of someone you detested? How much more strongly does our Creator feel about us lumping Him in with The Universe, or gods and goddesses? Yes, to you, it might feel the same, but it isn't the same. Especially not to God.

When you love someone, you give them respect. More than anything God wants us to love Him. If you are calling Him by another name, you probably don't know Him very well.

People I detest, exist. If my kid wants to call me Boba Fett instead of Mom, what do I care as long as they love me and do their best? If there's one God, then we're all talking to the same one, and there's nobody else for it to detest to resent us calling it.

 

[Zangetshumody]

Why would you say that?

Christians profess their faith. They have a Profession of Faith. This profession is well known and well worked out. Those who profess this specific faith are Christian and those who don't, aren't.

So either you don't know what a Christian is, or you have a non Christian belief but want to fly under the banner of Christianity.

For instance, Mormons have a non Christian belief but regularly tell me they are Christian. But when I question them closely, even they will admit they don't profess the Christian faith.

So are you like the Mormons or is it you genuinely don't know what a Christian is?

A real Christian is a real messenger of Glad tidings. the tidings of the heart of understanding.

Watch out for the nation that precludes this, for only the peculiar people among them might be true; this is my middle name.

Further addition: And then you also have to worry about the true parts of understanding that might be added or subtracted... Although in my opinion, there is only one unadulterated way of understanding, and that requires putting in the required work with the Priest (or teacher) in the right Church community; if you are prepared to seek the kingdom. Providence and vanity will slay your soul, but righteousness and providence is the kingdom come. Righteousness has this test:
Like my priest said: There is no peace without joy, and no joy without righteousness.
And Righteousness will only come through the heart of understanding (which is where God wants to live, in the earth inside your mind)

 

[RaptorWizard]

My Goddess treats me like a cute dog, and I make Her smile as She sings and I dance with a big evil grin!

 

[Mole]

I think the proof of God's existence lies within the self, and It's not something that I, nor anyone can prove to you with any evidence that you would accept. You need to look for yourself.

We are inter-subjective animals, so evidence is what we can share with each other.

A fantasy, an imagining, an hallucination, that can't be shared with others is not evidence.

 

[Mole]

A real Christian is a real messenger of Glad tidings.

This is the No true Scotsman Fallacy. It is a well known logical fallacy.

 

[Mole]

I never claimed to be a Christian, what I'm saying is you have billions of people all on this planet saying they are Christian with all very differ views on what a Christian is. I've read the bible cover to cover, and have studied it for over 10 years, and you can look at one verse, and easily get a thousands ideas on what it means - all non conclusive. So when someone talks about true Christians, and fake Christians I scuff at the idea.

I don't think you understand what a Christian is.

A Christian professes the Nicene Creed and belongs to a Church.

The New Age for instance doesn't profess the Nicene Creed and is not a Church.

Some belong to a Church that doesn't profess the Nicene Creed and so are not a Christian Church, such as the Mormons.

 

[five sounds]

We are inter-subjective animals, so evidence is what we can share with each other.

A fantasy, an imagining, an hallucination, that can't be shared with others is not evidence.

but what about the spirit? fantasy, imagining, and hallucinations are products of the mind. they exist on the carnal level of the human mind.

spiritual experiences come from a different place entirely. they exist on the spiritual plane which transcends humanity.

 

[Mole]

I know what you mean. I was only a little girl, attending church when the Abraham/Isaac story was read. I thought how can God demand a man kill his own son??? On top of that, all the animal sacrifices didn't go down well with the young animal activist that I was. It literally made me veer from God, and pushed me along the path toward atheism.

But the Bible must be read in order, from beginning to end. Because that is the best way to hear a story, and to read a story, to understand it. We need the context of the OT before we can truly place the NT in its proper place.

Let's look at the context.

God ordered Abraham to tie up his son and stand over him in preparation to cut Isaac up alive. This is simply child abuse.

This, as you say, is part of a story. And it is the story of the Abrahamic religions. And Isaac is a precursor to Jesus. And so God tied His Son, Jesus, to the Cross and tortured Him to death. And this is also child abuse.

And today in the Royal Commission into Child Abuse in Australia we hear of child abuse perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Salvation Army and even the YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association).

Christianity began in child abuse and continued in child abuse for almost 2,000 years until we brought them to account in Ireland in 2009 and now in Austalia in 2014.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

This is the No true Scotsman Fallacy. It is a well known logical fallacy.

This is true, but your definition also suffers from the same logical fallacy. Every Christian denomination has dogma that is divergent from the others, yet you have specifically identified the Trinity as an essential Christian doctrine. When some denominations believe in the doctrine of the Trinity and others do not, where is the authority - the vetting panel if you will - that declares the Trinity essential? There isn't one. It's impossible to be an apostate to Christianity, only to a specific denomination. You've simply made the assertion as if it were fact and trusted that the force of your certainty would put an end to the issue.

To me, any denomination that has as its central tenet salvation based on Jesus' death and resurrection is Christian. That's why it's called Christianity. The rest is window dressing. I'm sure most Christian denominations would disagree with that simple a definition, but that's because they have their own dogmas. Hence some evangelicals saying that Catholics aren't "real" Christians and several denominations saying Mormons aren't "real" Christians. They can hardly be expected to view the matter objectively. But we should.

 

[Mole]

but what about the spirit? fantasy, imagining, and hallucinations are products of the mind. they exist on the carnal level of the human mind.

spiritual experiences come from a different place entirely. they exist on the spiritual plane which transcends humanity.

There is no evidence whatsoever for the exitence of supernatural beings such as Zeus or Poseidon or the Trinity.

And spiritual experiences are entirely human. They are experienced by humans and they have human meanings.

 

[five sounds]

There is no evidence whatsoever for the exitence of supernatural beings such as Zeus or Poseidon or the Trinity.

And spiritual experiences are entirely human. They are experienced by humans and they have human meanings.

it's different. you'll see.

 

[Mole]

This is true, but your definition also suffers from the same logical fallacy. Every Christian denomination has dogma that is divergent from the others, yet you have specifically identified the Trinity as an essential Christian doctrine. When some denominations believe in the doctrine of the Trinity and others do not, where is the authority - the vetting panel if you will - that declares the Trinity essential? There isn't one. It's impossible to be an apostate to Christianity, only to a specific denomination. You've simply made the assertion as if it were fact and trusted that the force of your certainty would put an end to the issue.

To me, any denomination that has as its central tenet salvation based on Jesus' death and resurrection is Christian. That's why it's called Christianity. The rest is window dressing. I'm sure most Christian denominations would disagree with that simple a definition, but that's because they have their own dogmas. Hence some evangelicals saying that Catholics aren't "real" Christians and several denominations saying Mormons aren't "real" Christians. They can hardly be expected to view the matter objectively. But we should.

I just can't agree with you.

To be a Christian without the Trinity is being a Christian when we are not having any Christianity.

The Trinity is a central doctrine of Christianity. And those who deny the Trinity, deny Christianity.

I do understand the soft focus New Age wants to have their cake and eat it too.

The New Age wants Jesus without Christianity.

But His very name is Jesus Christ, Jesus the Christ.