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Thread: The GOD Thread~

  1. #751
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    Maybe we shouldn't convert to begin with.

    Not for me to decide though.
    Oh I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to decide if it is right wrong. Not in the sense of dictating what everyone can and not do, but make an argument for or against it.

    Personally, I am quite against conversion, and the very concept of religious missionaries disgusts me.
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  2. #752
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Oh I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to decide if it is right wrong. Not in the sense of dictating what everyone can and not do, but make an argument for or against it.

    Personally, I am quite against conversion, and the very concept of religious missionaries disgusts me.
    I am finding that I have a problem with missionaries seeking to be supported by others. I sort of think if you are supposed to be a missionary, then you will find your room and board, not need it given to you as a check by someone who makes a paycheck.

    Indeed, Jesus said:

    Provide no currency in your money belts, nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. ~Matthew 10:9-10

    So a missionary who pays for everything (as they do with YWAM) is not really doing what Jesus commanded here. It 'should' be that if you work, you are kept and fed by those you are working for. In this way, you know you are wanted there. If you are not wanted there, and no one will feed you, then it is obviously not God's will and you should leave that place:

    And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. ~Matthew 10:14


    So, yeah, I don't believe in missionaries PUSHING themselves on people. Being accepted in is one thing, but forcing themselves in, or paying (bribing) to be there is not holy.
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  3. #753
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I don't know enough about the facts as I am weak in my history.

    But. If they actually went over there and beat and stole innocent black people and forced them to get on the ships against their will, then that would be anti-Christian.
    I am flabbergasted by your response claiming naivete, when it was YOU who referenced Roots. The book is about Kunta Kinte, following his capture in Africa, and sold into slavery, and then following his life to descendants, the author, Alex Hailey. Hence, why it's called roots.
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  4. #754
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. ~Matthew 28:19-20
    "Bring an AK47 in case they have difficulty seeing the light".
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  5. #755
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I am finding that I have a problem with missionaries seeking to be supported by others. I sort of think if you are supposed to be a missionary, then you will find your room and board, not need it given to you as a check by someone who makes a paycheck.

    Indeed, Jesus said:

    Provide no currency in your money belts, nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. ~Matthew 10:9-10

    So a missionary who pays for everything (as they do with YWAM) is not really doing what Jesus commanded here. It 'should' be that if you work, you are kept and fed by those you are working for. In this way, you know you are wanted there. If you are not wanted there, and no one will feed you, then it is obviously not God's will and you should leave that place:

    And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. ~Matthew 10:14


    So, yeah, I don't believe in missionaries PUSHING themselves on people. Being accepted in is one thing, but forcing themselves in, or paying (bribing) to be there is not holy.
    Have you heard of a philosopher called Raymond Angelo Belliotti?

    He is one of my favourites, he has written about Machavelli and Dante, Italians like him, I think his book on Machavelli is one of the only ones to be really fair to Machavelli but also not to romanticise Machavelli either, he has also written a good book on sex and another on why happiness is over rated, I've read the later but not the former yet, I do agree that the pursuit of happiness is in error but if you pursue something else it could make you happy in the process.

    Anyway, he has written a magnificient book called Jesus or Nietzsche and he sort of tries to achieve a fusion of the both, it was probably one of the best intrepretations of Jesus I have ever read, and he makes a good argument that the two are not poles apart as is supposed by many or even possibly Nietzsche himself.

    Jesus' own doctrines and discipline was radically minimalist, radically so, possibly the only person to approximate anything like it since was Ghandi, when questions of support, dependency, service etc. all come into things I keep this in mind.

    There shouldnt ever be a case of people bribing or enticing people into believing something, that is human, all too human, although Christians could reflect the giving and self-sacrificing ways of God and Jesus in their own conduct, however, this ought to be sharing, rather than servility or subordination or anything of that sort too.

  6. #756

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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So, yeah, I don't believe in missionaries PUSHING themselves on people. Being accepted in is one thing, but forcing themselves in, or paying (bribing) to be there is not holy.
    That's perception. I see they're passionate about what they believe. To each his own. Love them anyway.

  7. #757
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    That's perception. I see they're passionate about what they believe. To each his own. Love them anyway.
    How about no. I have absolutely zero respect for that kind of coersion. Regardless of passion and intent.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  8. #758

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    How about no. I have absolutely zero respect for that kind of coersion. Regardless of passion and intent.
    Take a deep breath. It's not worth getting worked up about and getting high blood pressure. If you have solid boundaries and surely you do, then they're no threat to you.
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  9. #759
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    Take a deep breath. It's not worth getting worked up about and getting high blood pressure. If you have solid boundaries and surely you do, then they're no threat to you.
    So that means that those who are vulnerable should be exploited by such people, because they don't have solid boundaries to resist such coercion?

    Your bias is showing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny-Love View Post
    To each his own.
    You contradict yourself. For the missionaries, you exult, "To each his own." Yet, the missionaries' very passion, is to convert those into their own ideology. Their passion and very work is to override the very entitlement you afford them, "To each his own."
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  10. #760

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    So that means that those who are vulnerable should be exploited by such people, because they don't have solid boundaries to resist such coercion?

    Your bias is showing.

    You contradict yourself. For the missionaries, you exult, "To each his own." Yet, the missionaries' very passion, is to convert those into their own ideology. Their passion and very work is to override the very entitlement you afford them, "To each his own."
    I intercede for the weak in prayer. People are not the enemy. We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world. (Ephesians 6:12)

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