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Thread: The GOD Thread~

  1. #741
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Default Servanthood and Slavery

    The ancient Hebrews had laws on slavery (which was allowed of the foreigners and nations surrounding the nation of Israel) and servants (the poor of the Hebrews). I am not a jewish expert, nor do I want to be, but basically this system functioned as their welfare system. It should not be confused with the American slavery we think of in the book Roots. Undoubtedly there have been cruel slave owners, but that is not God's intent.

    Slaves were not to be oppressed, and were not to be returned to their owners if they escaped. This is obviously a safeguard by God against abusing slaves.

    Servants were to serve 6 years and go free in the 7th, laden with good and assets. Unless they wanted to stay in their master's home, and then they could stay indefinitely with their master, once pierced in the ear. They were not to be ruled over with rigor. They did not have rights as far as I know, but their humanity was protected in God's Law.

    Jesus came along and preached love and compassion, making slavery obsolete. But it does not necessarily change being a servant, because a poor person needs help and there is nothing wrong with working for your keep. We all must do that. Working 6 days is actually commanded in the 4th commandment! Jesus preaches love and compassion, but that does not mean we have to give everything away, or not expect those among us who are poor to not work to earn their keep.

    God's intent regarding slavery is that the foreign people from nations around them, who were not children of God, were living sinful lives ignorant of God's Laws. It would be better to be a slave to a Hebrew God-fearing master than a citizen of a Godless country.

    Servants were possibly Hebrews or aliens who became sold by their families for money, or perhaps fell into such dire straits they sold themselves. Servants were commanded to be treated well, lived in the master's home, and had a good life.

    There are many laws commanding God's children to help their brethren if they become poor, to redeem their home and land for them, and to treat all, even strangers, as family. Being a servant was inevitable however, because there will always be poor people in every society.

    Today we just have a government that takes money from people and doles it out to the poor. The government decides who gets what and how much. Being a servant in the ancient Holy Land meant you lived in a nice house, worked 6 days, rested the 7th, had good food to eat, a family with you, and a decent master. Our poor live in their own little corner of squalor with little resources or help. Hmm. Which sounds better to you?


    In summation, I'm not sure about slavery, whether it is always wrong, or whether it can be incorporated into sound Christianity. Food for thought.
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  2. #742
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post

    God's intent regarding slavery is that the foreign people from nations around them, who were not children of God, were living sinful lives ignorant of God's Laws. It would be better to be a slave to a Hebrew God-fearing master than a citizen of a Godless country.
    That's exactly what happened with American slavery. They took free people from "Godless" countries, to be slaves of Hebrew God-fearing masters.

    It should not be confused with the American slavery we think of in the book Roots. Undoubtedly there have been cruel slave owners, but that is not God's intent.
    So, then, are you saying American slavery was okay?
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  3. #743
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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  4. #744
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That's exactly what happened with American slavery. They took free people from "Godless" countries, to be slaves of Hebrew God-fearing masters.



    So, then, are you saying American slavery was okay?
    I don't know enough about the facts as I am weak in my history.

    But. If they actually went over there and beat and stole innocent black people and forced them to get on the ships against their will, then that would be anti-Christian.

    Also, Africa is not a nation 'surrounding us' so to go out of our way that far and do that seems cruel and heinous. It might be different if we conquered a surrounding nation. But then the problem you have there is that Christianity has spread so far and wife, that nearly everyone is your brethren and is to be treated as a hired servant, not a slave.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  5. #745
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I don't know enough about the facts as I am weak in my history.

    But. If they actually went over there and beat and stole innocent black people and forced them to get on the ships against their will, then that would be anti-Christian.

    Also, Africa is not a nation 'surrounding us' so to go out of our way that far and do that seems cruel and heinous. It might be different if we conquered a surrounding nation. But then the problem you have there is that Christianity has spread so far and wife, that nearly everyone is your brethren and is to be treated as a hired servant, not a slave.
    I think the point @Qre:us might've been trying to make is that religion has been used as an excuse for enslaving or eradicating people for thousands of years. Spanish conquistadores, upon meeting natives, would announce their intent to convert a population to Christianity or punish them for their refusal to convert. Of course, the natives didn't understand spanish, meaning they were going to be annihalated or enslaved, but convenient for the spanish empire to have such a convenient excuse for their brutalism. "We gave them a chance to see the light, they refused to listen" despite knowing full well that the natives were never going to understand the intent of the conquerors.

  6. #746
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I don't know enough about the facts as I am weak in my history.

    But. If they actually went over there and beat and stole innocent black people and forced them to get on the ships against their will, then that would be anti-Christian.
    They were mostly invited. They willingly came to learn the ways of the Christian faith. Slavery was a burden they wished to bear so they could learn to live in a sinless god fearing way.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Also, Africa is not a nation 'surrounding us' so to go out of our way that far and do that seems cruel and heinous. It might be different if we conquered a surrounding nation. But then the problem you have there is that Christianity has spread so far and wife, that nearly everyone is your brethren and is to be treated as a hired servant, not a slave.
    Lolz, if there were nations that were close to USA that weren't God fearing, do you think it would have been right to enslave them? Enslave them correctly or course, not cruelly or unchristianically.
    .

  7. #747
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    I think the point @Qre:us might've been trying to make is that religion has been used as an excuse for enslaving or eradicating people for thousands of years. Spanish conquistadores, upon meeting natives, would announce their intent to convert a population to Christianity or punish them for their refusal to convert. Of course, the natives didn't understand spanish, meaning they were going to be annihalated or enslaved, but convenient for the spanish empire to have such a convenient excuse for their brutalism. "We gave them a chance to see the light, they refused to listen" despite knowing full well that the natives were never going to understand the intent of the conquerors.

    Yeah, unfortunately Christians have been perpetuating un-Christlike behaviors in His name, since Christ rose from the dead.

    Then bystanders or students of history attribute man's sin to God's faultiness.


    Nowadays, we convert people with missionaries.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  8. #748
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Maybe we shouldn't convert to begin with.

    Not for me to decide though.
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  9. #749
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    They were mostly invited. They willingly came to learn the ways of the Christian faith. Slavery was a burden they wished to bear so they could learn to live in a sinless god fearing way.
    lol

    yeah, yeah.


    Lolz, if there were nations that were close to USA that weren't God fearing, do you think it would have been right to enslave them? Enslave them correctly or course, not cruelly or unchristianically.
    Again, there are those places where God's Law and Jesus' teachings can be hard to conflate. It is rare, but slavery is a good example of this. Divorce is another. God had a reason for allowing slavery to begin with. Those reasons did not all disappear in Jesus' time. Have they disappeared now? Perhaps? But I have not studied this subject in much depth.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  10. #750
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    Maybe we shouldn't convert to begin with.

    Not for me to decide though.
    Go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. ~Matthew 28:19-20
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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