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Thread: The GOD Thread~

  1. #541
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    First, I've been watching this thread a bit and it's got me to thinking. Look out. That's dangerous. I'm just warning you. haha.

    Secondly, I interpreted the original post [or at least this updated version; I haven't read the older portions of the thread.] to be for those who already believed or have had some sort of experience. She didn't say she wanted to hear about whether or not we believed in the validity or existence of a god. I think that somehow the thread went that way anyways. However I may be wrong in my interpretation. So, to me, the solution is simple. If you don't believe in God, don't read a thread addressed to those who do. That's like going to a bar and complaining because that there's alcohol. So, I suggest that if you want to argue the existence of God then dedicate a thread to "Arguing the Existence or Non-existence of God--warning, it is the thread that never ends." Because @prplchknz is right. Arguing the existence is endless. Arguments sound like a bunch of people all just trying to prove who's right, like a massive ego trip. Either believe or don't believe but don't belittle or make fun of others who choose to see things differently.

    I'm not trying to sound harsh. I'm just saying that I feel like the thread got derailed a little bit along the way. If I am wrong and the OP meant for it to be a discussion about the existence or non-existence of a deity, then I apologize, but I interpreted it to be addressed to those who had a positive experience. I took it to mean that she wanted to hear about those experiences.
    I will make such a thread and leave this one alone.
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  2. #542
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I will make such a thread and leave this one alone.
    I think that's a good idea.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #543
    is indra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I have a hunch that such a being is as real as time-traveling dinosaurs who live on a planet circling the next star over though.
    Oh hey, Turok fan?
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  4. #544
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I can disprove specific many specific god-claims, but the larger concept of god and gods is, in fact, untouchable. The flood story, for example, is so ridiculous that it can only be mythology. If one portion of the Bible is mythology, what of the other parts? This only applies to the God of the Bible, but I feel I have made a pretty solid case against that specific god.

    I can neither prove nor disprove a being who does not interfere with daily life. I have a hunch that such a being is as real as time-traveling dinosaurs who live on a planet circling the next star over though.

    I will say this, though, religion is not all that bad if it is moderate and makes room for science and reason.
    there could've been a major flood in the region though. the mesopotamian's also had a flood story that sounds similar to the noah one. but that's just saying there could have been a flood. more of flood's happen but we didn't have the technology to explain it back then. most things that can now be explained by science but not really any other way got explained with religion. I don't think the whole earth flooded, but it's not unreasonable considering there was not really good transportation and people had limited scope of the world that to them the flood was the whole world. especially if it's big enough. and both religions are from pretty much the same region. but there's no evidence of the stories being around because of a flood or if they're even the same flood

    The hypothesis that the flood levels at Kish and Shuruppak represent the same event is no more than an assumption. Flood events occurred with frequency throughout southern Mesopotamia, as the two separate early flood levels at Kish indicate. Even more so than the Ur flood, the flood levels at Kish and Shuruppak fail to fulfill the biblical or even the Mesopotamian literary descriptions. In the degree to which those descriptions are "rationalized," any criteria for distinguishing between the biblical Flood and virtually any other flood disappear. The flood remains at Kish and Shuruppak are hardly imposing. The silt at Kish averages less than ten inches thick, and the deposit at Shuruppak is about fifteen inches-in comparison to up to eleven feet of material at Ur (Raikes, 1967, pp. 52-63). The severity of a flood cannot necessarily be deduced from the thickness of an isolated sample of the flood deposit. It is nonetheless suggestive that thicker, more impressive deposits from another flood have been discovered at Kish, dating too late to be identified with the innundation of the Bible and Mesopotamian literature, and yet that later flood left no record in history (Watelin, 1934, pp. 41-43; Mallowan, 1964, pp. 78-79 and plate XX). All that remains is the possibility that the Kish and Shuruppak materials do represent the same event and coincide chronologically with the date of about 2900 BCE for the Flood of Mesopotamian literary tradition.

    The flood materials from Ur, Kish, and Shuruppak were excavated over half a century ago. Woolley's description of the flood level at Ur is far from scientific. It is not even possible to be sure of the exact number of sondages in which he found flood remains. While attempts to dismiss the remains of the Ur flood as merely windblown sand are unsubstantiated and probably unsubstantiatable, the two "scientific" examinations of materials from the Ur flood stratum are, by modern standards, vague and inconclusive. The same situation prevails at Kish and Shuruppak (Raikes, 1967, pp. 52-63). In all probability, the finds do represent floods, but the exact character of those events—fluvial or marine, rapid or slow deposition, unitary or episodic—remains unknown. The hydrology of southern Mesopotamia is very complex. Renewed excavation and modern scientific techniques could probably solve many of these questions, but current political and military conditions would seem to preclude any such activity in the near future. Until the situation changes, there are no compelling grounds on which to conclude that the Flood story found its ultimate beginning in an actual event that has been identified at Kish and Shuruppak or anywhere else in Mesopotamia.

    The endemic character of flooding in southern Mesopotamia may well have been sufficient to generate the story about a supreme Flood, and the attachment of that story to a specific, long-passed, ill-known historical context may, in fact, be late and unreliable. The earliest edition of the Sumerian King List certainly includes no list of antediluvian kings, and the presence of reference to the Flood is in doubt. It may first have been added much later, during a period in which the Flood story was popular (Civil, 1969, p. 139). Ultimately, the search for a local Mesopotamian flood upon which a rationalization of the Bible story can be based may prove as illusionary as the search for Noah's ark.
    The Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence | NCSE

    (I've not read the whole thing just skimmed it, because it's long, I was looking for evidence for my argument)
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  5. #545
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    Oh hey, Turok fan?
    Yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Take it to the new thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    there could've been a major flood in the region though. the mesopotamian's also had a flood story that sounds similar to the noah one. but that's just saying there could have been a flood. more of flood's happen but we didn't have the technology to explain it back then. most things that can now be explained by science but not really any other way got explained with religion. I don't think the whole earth flooded, but it's not unreasonable considering there was not really good transportation and people had limited scope of the world that to them the flood was the whole world. especially if it's big enough. and both religions are from pretty much the same region. but there's no evidence of the stories being around because of a flood or if they're even the same flood



    The Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence | NCSE

    (I've not read the whole thing just skimmed it, because it's long, I was looking for evidence for my argument)
    Take it to the new thread.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  6. #546
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Take it to the new thread.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Take it to the new thread.
    seriously? you replied to me in this thread. don't higher moralize me. plus I wasn't trying to prove the existence of god
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #547
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I have a hunch that such a being is as real as time-traveling dinosaurs who live on a planet circling the next star over though.
    Maybe God is on the next star over and Earth is just the pet fish tank.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

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  8. #548
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Former Cult Members Find New Life In Christ


    Helen Hurley of the Fellowship House in Hanover, NH, where cult
    survivors are being given a chance to return to the real world,
    be reborn and ascend into Heaven for all eternity through devotion
    to the one true Savior, Jesus Christ.


    "Look," she said, her expression turning serious, "some of the men and women who have come through the Fellowship House were actually involved in ritual cannibalism at one time. Now they can turn their back on darkness and confusion. They are free to take their first communion, and in the sacramental eating and drinking of the body and blood of Christ, they have been washed of their sins by the blood of the Lamb."

    After all, isn't that what it's really all about?
    Transubstantiation is a Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox thing. Protestants (that would include me) generally think it's a silly idea.


    And now for something completely different:

    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Maybe God is on the next star over and Earth is just the pet fish tank.
    Likes Chanaynay liked this post

  10. #550
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    god arguments are stupid. you can neither prove nor disprove god. there can not be an end, it's just back and forth.
    Amen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I can disprove specific many specific god-claims, but the larger concept of god and gods is, in fact, untouchable. The flood story, for example, is so ridiculous that it can only be mythology. If one portion of the Bible is mythology, what of the other parts? This only applies to the God of the Bible, but I feel I have made a pretty solid case against that specific god.
    No, you have made a case against specific claims humans have made for God in that context. The existence of the God revered by those who wrote the Bible is independent of their skill in making a case for him in their writings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Secondly, I interpreted the original post [or at least this updated version; I haven't read the older portions of the thread.] to be for those who already believed or have had some sort of experience. She didn't say she wanted to hear about whether or not we believed in the validity or existence of a god. I think that somehow the thread went that way anyways. However I may be wrong in my interpretation. So, to me, the solution is simple. If you don't believe in God, don't read a thread addressed to those who do. That's like going to a bar and complaining because that there's alcohol. So, I suggest that if you want to argue the existence of God then dedicate a thread to "Arguing the Existence or Non-existence of God--warning, it is the thread that never ends." Because @prplchknz is right. Arguing the existence is endless. Arguments sound like a bunch of people all just trying to prove who's right, like a massive ego trip. Either believe or don't believe but don't belittle or make fun of others who choose to see things differently..
    These lines in the OP
    Also, I'd love to dialogue with you about God related issues.
    If you have questions, please share them.
    suggest that the scope of the thread is broader than what you outline here. The question of whether God exists at all is definitely a "God related issue". That being said, there is certainly room for a thread where believers can share their thoughts and experiences, predicated on the assumption that God does exist.

    This still leads to trouble, though, since even among believers, perspectives on God differ considerably. Some people think that people whose views of God differ from theirs don't believe in the "real" God, and are in some way infidels, or at least wrong. I believe in a divine power, for instance, but I guarantee my views on it are markedly different from those of (ironically named) AproditeGoneAwry. We have discussed this here on this and other threads. Throughout history, there has probably been more enmity, distrust, and outright violence between various groups of believers than between believers and atheists/agnostics. The latter in particular seem to avoid conflict, and feel no need to force their views on others (with exceptions, of course).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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