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  1. #1
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Default What is this place?

    Have you ever thought about how strange this place really is? Why is existence like this? Why is it this incredibly complex system that can't be understood in its entirety by one being? Why does this place even have beings? Why do we even have systems, or abstract concepts like complexity and simplicity? Why do we have thought? Why do we have senses to interpret existence, it would be much simpler to not even have senses or a need for senses, so why do we have it? Why is there even a concept of existence let alone a physical realm devoted to it?




    How long has this place been here, and why is it still here?

  2. #2
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Have you ever thought about how strange this place really is? Why is existence like this? Why is it this incredibly complex system that can't be understood in its entirety by one being? Why does this place even have beings? Why do we even have systems, or abstract concepts like complexity and simplicity? Why do we have thought? Why do we have senses to interpret existence, it would be much simpler to not even have senses or a need for senses, so why do we have it? Why is there even a concept of existence let alone a physical realm devoted to it?

    How long has this place been here, and why is it still here?
    Hah, it's a very N thing for you to state that the concept exists before the manifestation... in the beginning there was the WORD.

    In my experience Why's are unanswerable without talking to something that was both responsible for it all and also had motive. Until then, all we have are Whats.

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    As much as I've pondered, the thoughts still strike me cold.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Hah, it's a very N thing for you to state that the concept exists before the manifestation... in the beginning there was the WORD.

    In my experience Why's are unanswerable without talking to something that was both responsible for it all and also had motive. Until then, all we have are Whats.
    The question is indeed unanswerable, it is merely a stab in the dark at the deepest meaning that shakes the very foundation of what we would like to call our little "existence". Everything around us is completely absurd and binds us with the illusion of grounded understandings when in actuality we know absolutely nothing about anything but this strange little place. We limit ourselves to these completely strange yet sensible categories and divisions of something and nothing, existence and non-existence, life and death, simply because we live in this place. We don't even know what this place is, we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies. What would happen if this place wasn't here? What would substitute it? Nothing couldn't even substitute it because the concept of nothing is inherent of this place. It's all so interesting and fascinating.

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The question is indeed unanswerable, it is merely a stab in the dark at the deepest meaning that shakes the very foundation of what we would like to call our little "existence". Everything around us is completely absurd and binds us with the illusion of grounded understandings when in actuality we know absolutely nothing about anything but this strange little place. We limit ourselves to these completely strange yet sensible categories and divisions of something and nothing, existence and non-existence, life and death, simply because we live in this place. We don't even know what this place is, we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies. What would happen if this place wasn't here? What would substitute it? Nothing couldn't even substitute it because the concept of nothing is inherent of this place. It's all so interesting and fascinating.
    Very astute observations, you learn a lot from thinking about what nothing is. As you obviously know, nothing only exists if there is an observer to ponder it. In philosophy there is always one concept that that has no constituents other than itself, and that is 'is', i.e. being.

    I feel a lot more comfortable with the whats, when you realize the dichotomy is not all that strange. When the walls break down, you know, although you cannot ever truly understand that we belong here, though the nature of our consciousness tells us otherwise.

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    I always thought why "isn't life more like star wars"?

  7. #7
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    I look at the universe like this: Some things are unanswered, some things are known, others might simply be axioms.

    It's very tempting for us to think that everything has a reason, and underlying principal behind it. Some sort of purpose for it. Nearly everything does, and I think it is good practice to assume that everything does. In the realm of understanding the universe, this is required. It's how we push boundaries and learn. Honestly though? I sometimes wonder if there are some thing that truly don't have answer, because that is just how it is. It's sort of uncomfortable to think about. How could something that is a fundamental have no reason? It's a possibility one should consider though, among all the others. It's something many Ni-doms in particular don't want to do, but it doesn't make it any less valid.

    I have nothing to go by, and this is pure speculation on my end. Ultimately, science will have to find the answer (or lack of). That said, I wonder if the universe is actually timeless, and I mean that in a literal sense. It's possible that the universe has no beginning, and no ending. As such, it has always existed. It starts running into the concept of infinity which is really hard to grasp, which is why some may not entertain the idea. It seems that we want the universe to be finite. Why does it have to be? It's reasonable to think it could be forever. If we assume the universe is a closed system, then there is a finite mass and energy, and it can be rearranged into infinite ways, and in effect "recycled". If the universe has always exsisted and always will exist, then the question of "why" might ultimately be moot. To some this might be woefully unsatisfying because it doesn't get to a "why" answer. To me though, I find the idea of the answer being that there is no answer, truly awe inspiring.

    Of course there is the whole issues of the universe accelarating further away from itself, leading to "the big freeze", puts a bit of a small kink into the "forever idea". It might not be afterall though. Theories are always evolving. In another 20 years our perspective of what the universe is could be completely different. When we learn more it might become more clear.

    If you look at it from a totally objective point of view "we" are nothing more than the universe observing itself. We are all made of the same fundamental materials that goes through the universe. "We", the universe, have come together in such away as to gain awareness, and interact with itself. Saying that it is simpler to not have senses, isn't really fair. In some respects it is. We can all agree that we are more complex than a rock from a chemical standpoint. However, I'd argue that our senses are meerly incidental. Consider entropy (and to a minor extent enthalpy). All of our chemical reactions and processes are (overall) downhill processes. It might seem crazy for such a complex system to come together, but you can get some very amazing things to go forward simply by the process of going downhill energetically.

    Not everyone seems to like this, but I consider many if not all things in the universe to be "incidental". To me though, that doesn't detract from any of it. In fact, it makes it even more interesting, and in a way it seems like a grand design of sorts afterall.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies.
    These strange little dichotomies are the way we see, these strange little dichotomies are our epistemology.

    For we perceive by making distinctions (dichotomies), and the more distinctions the more we see.

    And if we make no distinctions, we see nothing.

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    These strange little dichotomies are the way we see, these strange little dichotomies are our epistemology.

    For we perceive by making distinctions (dichotomies), and the more distinctions the more we see.

    And if we make no distinctions, we see nothing.
    And we become everything. Mystics call the threshold of this the veil. Although while after conscientiously passing this threshold there is no learning, you do come back different.

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    Existence is here because when the first light shined, the rainbow unleashed the 3 Infinities, 2 at each end for expansive directions, and 1 for the World.

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