What is this place?

[Alea_iacta_est]

Have you ever thought about how strange this place really is? Why is existence like this? Why is it this incredibly complex system that can't be understood in its entirety by one being? Why does this place even have beings? Why do we even have systems, or abstract concepts like complexity and simplicity? Why do we have thought? Why do we have senses to interpret existence, it would be much simpler to not even have senses or a need for senses, so why do we have it? Why is there even a concept of existence let alone a physical realm devoted to it?




How long has this place been here, and why is it still here?

 

[Qlip]

Have you ever thought about how strange this place really is? Why is existence like this? Why is it this incredibly complex system that can't be understood in its entirety by one being? Why does this place even have beings? Why do we even have systems, or abstract concepts like complexity and simplicity? Why do we have thought? Why do we have senses to interpret existence, it would be much simpler to not even have senses or a need for senses, so why do we have it? Why is there even a concept of existence let alone a physical realm devoted to it?

How long has this place been here, and why is it still here?

Hah, it's a very N thing for you to state that the concept exists before the manifestation... in the beginning there was the WORD.

In my experience Why's are unanswerable without talking to something that was both responsible for it all and also had motive. Until then, all we have are Whats.

 

[WALMART]

As much as I've pondered, the thoughts still strike me cold.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Hah, it's a very N thing for you to state that the concept exists before the manifestation... in the beginning there was the WORD.

In my experience Why's are unanswerable without talking to something that was both responsible for it all and also had motive. Until then, all we have are Whats.

The question is indeed unanswerable, it is merely a stab in the dark at the deepest meaning that shakes the very foundation of what we would like to call our little "existence". Everything around us is completely absurd and binds us with the illusion of grounded understandings when in actuality we know absolutely nothing about anything but this strange little place. We limit ourselves to these completely strange yet sensible categories and divisions of something and nothing, existence and non-existence, life and death, simply because we live in this place. We don't even know what this place is, we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies. What would happen if this place wasn't here? What would substitute it? Nothing couldn't even substitute it because the concept of nothing is inherent of this place. It's all so interesting and fascinating.

 

[Qlip]

The question is indeed unanswerable, it is merely a stab in the dark at the deepest meaning that shakes the very foundation of what we would like to call our little "existence". Everything around us is completely absurd and binds us with the illusion of grounded understandings when in actuality we know absolutely nothing about anything but this strange little place. We limit ourselves to these completely strange yet sensible categories and divisions of something and nothing, existence and non-existence, life and death, simply because we live in this place. We don't even know what this place is, we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies. What would happen if this place wasn't here? What would substitute it? Nothing couldn't even substitute it because the concept of nothing is inherent of this place. It's all so interesting and fascinating.

Very astute observations, you learn a lot from thinking about what nothing is. As you obviously know, nothing only exists if there is an observer to ponder it. In philosophy there is always one concept that that has no constituents other than itself, and that is 'is', i.e. being.

I feel a lot more comfortable with the whats, when you realize the dichotomy is not all that strange. When the walls break down, you know, although you cannot ever truly understand that we belong here, though the nature of our consciousness tells us otherwise.

 

[inventor]

I always thought why "isn't life more like star wars"?

 

[á´…eparted]

I look at the universe like this: Some things are unanswered, some things are known, others might simply be axioms.

It's very tempting for us to think that everything has a reason, and underlying principal behind it. Some sort of purpose for it. Nearly everything does, and I think it is good practice to assume that everything does. In the realm of understanding the universe, this is required. It's how we push boundaries and learn. Honestly though? I sometimes wonder if there are some thing that truly don't have answer, because that is just how it is. It's sort of uncomfortable to think about. How could something that is a fundamental have no reason? It's a possibility one should consider though, among all the others. It's something many Ni-doms in particular don't want to do, but it doesn't make it any less valid.

I have nothing to go by, and this is pure speculation on my end. Ultimately, science will have to find the answer (or lack of). That said, I wonder if the universe is actually timeless, and I mean that in a literal sense. It's possible that the universe has no beginning, and no ending. As such, it has always existed. It starts running into the concept of infinity which is really hard to grasp, which is why some may not entertain the idea. It seems that we want the universe to be finite. Why does it have to be? It's reasonable to think it could be forever. If we assume the universe is a closed system, then there is a finite mass and energy, and it can be rearranged into infinite ways, and in effect "recycled". If the universe has always exsisted and always will exist, then the question of "why" might ultimately be moot. To some this might be woefully unsatisfying because it doesn't get to a "why" answer. To me though, I find the idea of the answer being that there is no answer, truly awe inspiring.

Of course there is the whole issues of the universe accelarating further away from itself, leading to "the big freeze", puts a bit of a small kink into the "forever idea". It might not be afterall though. Theories are always evolving. In another 20 years our perspective of what the universe is could be completely different. When we learn more it might become more clear.

If you look at it from a totally objective point of view "we" are nothing more than the universe observing itself. We are all made of the same fundamental materials that goes through the universe. "We", the universe, have come together in such away as to gain awareness, and interact with itself. Saying that it is simpler to not have senses, isn't really fair. In some respects it is. We can all agree that we are more complex than a rock from a chemical standpoint. However, I'd argue that our senses are meerly incidental. Consider entropy (and to a minor extent enthalpy). All of our chemical reactions and processes are (overall) downhill processes. It might seem crazy for such a complex system to come together, but you can get some very amazing things to go forward simply by the process of going downhill energetically.

Not everyone seems to like this, but I consider many if not all things in the universe to be "incidental". To me though, that doesn't detract from any of it. In fact, it makes it even more interesting, and in a way it seems like a grand design of sorts afterall.

 

[Mole]

we are simply just here and following its strange little dichotomies.

These strange little dichotomies are the way we see, these strange little dichotomies are our epistemology.

For we perceive by making distinctions (dichotomies), and the more distinctions the more we see.

And if we make no distinctions, we see nothing.

 

[Qlip]

These strange little dichotomies are the way we see, these strange little dichotomies are our epistemology.

For we perceive by making distinctions (dichotomies), and the more distinctions the more we see.

And if we make no distinctions, we see nothing.

And we become everything. Mystics call the threshold of this the veil. Although while after conscientiously passing this threshold there is no learning, you do come back different.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Existence is here because when the first light shined, the rainbow unleashed the 3 Infinities, 2 at each end for expansive directions, and 1 for the World.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Existence is here because when the first light shined, the rainbow unleashed the 3 Infinities, 2 at each end for expansive directions, and 1 for the World.

Existence is puny when compared to what this is. Existence is a room that is barred from what lay just outside, the actual place. We are stuck in part of the place; a very, very minuscule part of this place that has locked us from the outside. Outside, is the rest of the place, infinitely strange, infinitely deep, infinitely infinite, and here we are stuck in this little box of strange concepts that have arisen out of nowhere but the inside of the box. Gravity, Electromagnetic radiation, words, morality, life, math, time, and space are simply the creation of the box to suit those inside the box, they are nothing but limitations to what this place actually entails on the outside. It's pure possibility mixed with ultimate freedom. It's above existence, it is above any deity or creation story, it is above every little minute detail you can possibly imagine of this existence. The place is simply the personification of the question of ancients, why?

 

[Mole]

And we become everything. Mystics call the threshold of this the veil. Although while after conscientiously passing this threshold there is no learning, you do come back different.

Unfortunately this is not true.

Our very means of perceiving is by distinctions, there is no mystical way round this. Where there is no distinction, we do not perceive anything.

Before the European Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries there was no evidence and reason, and all we had was mysticism.

The Enlightenment fought mysticism and won and gave us the modern world we see around us.

However those who push drugs do so in the name of mysticism, and those who push religion do it in the name of mysticism.

To discover distinctions read, The Laws of Form, by G. Spencer-Brown.

 

[Qlip]

Unfortunately this is not true.

Our very means of perceiving is by distinctions, there is no mystical way round this. Where there is no distinction, we do not perceive anything.

Before the European Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries there was no evidence and reason, and all we had was mysticism.

The Enlightenment fought mysticism and won and gave us the modern world we see around us.

However those who push drugs do so in the name of mysticism, and those who push religion do it in the name of mysticism.

To discover distinctions read, The Laws of Form, by G. Spencer-Brown.

Tis true, I've been there and I'm better for it. You may as well tell me that orange is blue.

 

[Mole]

Tis true, I've been there and I'm better for it. You may as well tell me that orange is blue.

Illusions tied to wishfulfillment are very powerful.

Would you be kind enough to tell us the method you used to reach your mystical experience?

 

[Qlip]

Illusions tied to wishfulfillment are very powerful.

Would you be kind enough to tell us the method you used to reach your mystical experience?

There's no wish fulfillment involved. I can't shoot laser beams out of my eyes, I can't save the world or even myself sometimes. But hmmm, I understand more than I did.

I meditated.

 

[Mole]

There's no wish fulfillment involved. I can't shoot laser beams out of my eyes, I can't save the world or even myself sometimes. But hmmm, I understand more than I did.

I meditated.

I am wondering what meditation you followed?

 

[Qlip]

I am wondering what meditation you followed?

Haha, life meditation. I don't/didn't have a particular style. I walk, I drive, I sit. I freak out, I zone out. I'm sure there are many different degrees of getting there, and there may be more than one there.

When you go there, you willingly relinquish your ego. It's like dying and coming back.

People don't really understand the mystic experience. And it's no wonder, even mystics misrepresent it. Buddhist traditions warn to ignore all those demons and illusions of power. It may be because there is actual power in certain levels of psych(ic/ological) understanding, or it may be because people have the tendency to go batshit crazy when they start poking around within themselves, or both.

There is a very common misunderstanding the mysticism is the same mystification and mumbo jumbo. I really like this wikipedia definition:

Mysticism is "a constellation of distinctive practices, discourses, texts, institutions, traditions, and experiences aimed at human transformation, variously defined in different traditions."

They are variously defined, but they seem to all explore the same territory with different place names.

 

[WhoCares]

And what if, none of this is real anyway? What then?

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

And what if, none of this is real anyway? What then?

Reality is still part of a dichotomy within the box my friend. Outside of the box is an ocean of insanity that would tear apart the foundations of everything that has ever been inside the box. Ultimately, however, the outside of the box is beyond our grasp, and we will never know what it is like on the outside even in death and the destruction of everything in this box.

 

[93JC]