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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by inventor View Post
    Thanks

    In that case I've them more then once.
    It is important to judge a mystical experience by the fruits it produces.

    So we ask, as a result of our mystical experience, do we help the poor; do we visit prisoners; do we provide company for the lonely; are we patient and kind.

    If our mysticism doesn't bear good fruit, then it is no more than narcissism and we may as well spend our time with the pornography of sex and the pornography of guns.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Yes, it is scary.

    When we were little children, we were scared to be left alone by our parents. Our fear was realistic because we were dependent on them.

    We grew up we replace our parents with God, but as God is invisible, we said He has ascended above the clouds.

    And as we don't seem to have found God above the clouds, we look for life on other planets.

    And if there is no life on other planets, we are really alone, and this is really scary.
    Lol when trying to explain why I felt this way, I did draw the same parallel about kids vs parents and this. I didn't think of the God parallel though. That one doesn't really make sense to me tbh, I never felt the need to have a God image after I grew up enough not to be dependent on parents.

    I guess it was also seeming scary because it makes you realise that we are here only by a tremendous amount of luck. I mean, in the case that life or intelligent life never developed elsewhere.

    But you didn't answer me on that, do you think it's more likely for a civilization (of one or of many) to be able to build the super-rocket traveling at 99% of the speed of light than for intelligent life to develop more than once?

    I'm honestly curious!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Mystical experience is an attempt to have direct experience of God.

    So mystical experience is in contradistinction to revealed religion, where we don't have direct experience of God, rather God is revealed to us in sacred texts.

    However in trying to directly experience God, we have developed ways of changing our perceptions, such as by meditation, or by sufi dancing, or by fasting, by belief, or by serving the poor, or by liturgy using music, song, prayer, and ritual.
    That's a way to look at it I guess. I have had spiritual feelings - pretty sporadically - and I never related it to any kind of God. No, it's more about a direct experience of how awesome this world is. Something like that. But I don't have these feelings when looking at whatever. It's always disconnected from that, it's when I don't look at anything concretely and just get in the mood for a few seconds and I'll live this feeling of how great it all is. In a very general and vague way. The God thing to me doesn't make sense in any concrete form whatsoever.

    I hope the way I described this makes sense. This is really how it is for me, there must be individual differences.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It is important to judge a mystical experience by the fruits it produces.

    So we ask, as a result of our mystical experience, do we help the poor; do we visit prisoners; do we provide company for the lonely; are we patient and kind.

    If our mysticism doesn't bear good fruit, then it is no more than narcissism and we may as well spend our time with the pornography of sex and the pornography of guns.
    I don't need mysticism to help people. I will do that without any such prerequisites. I again don't connect helpfulness with God stuff or with morality or whatever and I don't need to feel better about myself just because I help someone (or feel worse either :P).

    Thus, I disagree about the narcissism part.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    But you didn't answer me on that, do you think it's more likely for a civilization (of one or of many) to be able to build the super-rocket traveling at 99% of the speed of light than for intelligent life to develop more than once?

    I'm honestly curious!
    I didn't answer because I honesty don't know the answer.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I didn't answer because I honesty don't know the answer.
    Yeah, okay, I just thought you had some information on educated guesses by people who've thought about this a lot or something. (Because of how you presented your original conclusion)

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