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  1. #11
    Member Avalon's Avatar
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    Zago I once had a mystical experience, when I was younger I grappled with a disease which doctors could not cure because it simply didn't exist, a curse if you will. Dying, I travelled to another plane, and while there I received help from an entity who removed a blade like object from my body, and as a result the disease disappeared. I assure you fellow members, that science alone cannot reveal that which is otherworldly because science is mundane and piece of something larger, like the philosophies of holon and holism dictates.
    "sidere mens eadem mutato"

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Mystical experiences reveal meaning, and meaning is a type of truth. It's the link between facts and how they relate to you. The feelings of the revelations are just byproducts.

  3. #13
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    Zago I once had a mystical experience, when I was younger I grappled with a disease which doctors could not cure because it simply didn't exist, a curse if you will. Dying, I travelled to another plane, and while there I received help from an entity who removed a blade like object from my body, and as a result the disease disappeared. I assure you fellow members, that science alone cannot reveal that which is otherworldly because science is mundane and piece of something larger, like the philosophies of holon and holism dictates.
    Avalon, wouldn't you like to be able to access that realm (and its wisdom) without having to be at death's door to do it? Science is the one thing that can help us achieve that.

    Science harnesses. 1000 years ago, no one had the slightest concept of how we would use electricity today. In the same vein, we today have no concept of what science will soon harness, what doors it will unlock.

    If it can be observed, it can be studied and harnessed, to ever-increasing degrees of proficiency. Mystical experience is no exception.

  4. #14
    Member Avalon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Avalon, wouldn't you like to be able to access that realm (and its wisdom) without having to be at death's door to do it? Science is the one thing that can help us achieve that.

    Science harnesses. 1000 years ago, no one had the slightest concept of how we would use electricity today. In the same vein, we today have no concept of what science will soon harness, what doors it will unlock.

    If it can be observed, it can be studied and harnessed, to ever-increasing degrees of proficiency. Mystical experience is no exception.
    interestedly I'd like you to divulge how science will achieve what some mystics and alchemists struggled so hard to achieve, science can only harness the power of nature, only spirit can harness spirit, so only mankind who is endowed with a soul can reach the absolute and not machines with blinking dials.
    "sidere mens eadem mutato"

  5. #15
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    interestedly I'd like you to divulge how science will achieve what some mystics and alchemists struggled so hard to achieve, science can only harness the power of nature, only spirit can harness spirit, so only mankind who is endowed with a soul can reach the absolute and not machines with blinking dials.
    Humans are machines. The best argument you can actually give here is that there *might* be something supernatural about humans that computers can never achieve no matter how complicated. It seems apparent to me, though, that the word "supernatural" just implies that we haven't figured out enough about nature yet. If it can happen, it is part of nature, and it can be eventually uncovered by science.

    You're simply stuck in today's worldview. How are you no different from the people hundreds of years ago who couldn't have imagined what we would be capable of today? We are absolutely not at the pinnacle of technological development, there is a LOT more to discover and there is a lot more that is on the fringes being developed as we speak. Check out D-wave. This company plans to release a 1000 qubit quantum computer this year. Google and Lockheed Martin were customers of its last model, a 512 qubit one.

    Would a medieval peasant have believed you if you began talking about electricity and how we would use it? No, he would think it was magic. I promise you, civilization will continue to see this sort of paradigm shift. The only question is, what will it be?

    The point, though, is that mystical experiences are not hard to produce. Scientists have already succeeded in finding the "God area" of the brain and can induce deeply spiritual experiences through a variety of means. Access to these states has no option but to become easier, cheaper, and more widespread. Once it is safe and easy, the question becomes documenting the experience and forming a map of the spiritual landscape. That's also something science is very good at.

    I don't see how you could think this is impossible - it's almost is if you don't want it to be possible. My question is, why? Why wouldn't you be excited about humans unlocking the doors to the more ethereal experiences the mind has to offer and integrating them into their existence? That seems to me like a transcendent shift, the mark of a truly advanced and intelligent planetary culture.

    Is it that you want this all to yourself? That you want the experience to be exclusive? Does the idea of you not being in a special position to talk about these things threaten you?

    I'm just drawing your statements out to what I see as their logical conclusion. What I sense is resistance. If you aren't resistant to the idea, would you freely admit that even if it can't happen, it would be a good thing if it could?

    “The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of the mountain, or in the petals of a flower. To think otherwise is to demean the Buddha - which is to demean oneself.”
    Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
    "If it was possible to become free of negative emotions by a riskless implementation of an electrode - without impairing intelligence and the critical mind - I would be the first patient."
    Dalai Lama (Society for Neuroscience Congress, Nov. 2005)
    Other mystics seem to have no problem with the notion of technology and mysticism in harmony. I would ask, is your thinking really so different from the creationist who diatribes about how a monkey can't possibly be his grandfather? Is it really so different from the astronomers who used to believe the Earth was at the center of the entire universe?

    We aren't that special, my friend. But that's ok. Life is still spectacular. This is no loss.

  6. #16
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    For a long time now they have been selling drugs. And to sell drugs they have been making propaganda.

    A plausible form of propaganda is that drugs are a short cut to mystical experience.

    This propaganda is plausible because drugs do create illusions which can easily be mistaken for mystical experience.

    Also many are highly motivated to take drugs to enhance their sex lives, and naturally they try to dress it up as mystical experience.

    And many take drugs for narcissistic reasons and want to give their illusions some grand importance like mystical experience.

    So the drug sellers are motivated by very high profits to dress the illusions from drugs as mystical experience.

    And the drug buyers dress up sex as mystical experience; and the drug buyers dress their narcissism up as grandly important mystical experience.

  7. #17
    Member Avalon's Avatar
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    No matter how fast a rocket travels, even at light speed, it can never reach the horizon. I believe humans will gain some mastery over the physical plane, but just like the horizon or God, there are barriers, no computer can circumvent, no matter how advance. In the future will a computer be able to connect to the astral planes and download the ethereal data found there? Will a man made device reach a Godlike computing threshold allowing it to calculate infinite data? If holon philosophy is true, then human will never have all the information, only fragments of the whole. Technology, have hundreds, no, infinite rivers to cross...
    "sidere mens eadem mutato"

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    No matter how fast a rocket travels, even at light speed, it can never reach the horizon. I believe humans will gain some mastery over the physical plane, but just like the horizon or God, there are barriers, no computer can circumvent, no matter how advance. In the future will a computer be able to connect to the astral planes and download the ethereal data found there? Will a man made device reach a Godlike computing threshold allowing it to calculate infinite data? If holon philosophy is true, then human will never have all the information, only fragments of the whole. Technology, have hundreds, no, infinite rivers to cross...
    If a rocket could travel at light speed, time would stop on the rocket.

    And even if a rocket could travel at 99% the speed of light, distance would be so shortened, we could travel anywhere in the universe in our own lifetime.

    And as no other lifeform has reached us in our own galaxy suggests there is no one there.

  9. #19
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    What is a mystical experience? Can I get a definition because everything here just sounds like a religious experience..

  10. #20
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    once i thought i was in hell

    went outside for a couple bowls in the dark, pouring down rain

    got inside, kitchen light wouldn't work

    living room light wouldn't work

    stairway light wouldn't work

    but the power was on

    stood huddled in the corner under a lamp for ten minutes

    the rain wouldn't stop chanting

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