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  1. #1
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    Default The Creator CANNOT Be Omniscient

    I was just thinking that if an external Creator exists, it would be omnipotent but it cannot be omniscient. Agree? Disagree? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Any other alternative thoughts?

    If there is no such thing as an external Creator and we are the Creator (meaning everything is the Creator in cumulation), the same would still apply in that the collective consciousness of everything is omnipotent but it cannot be omniscient. Agree? Disagree? Somewhat agree? Somewhat disagree? Any other alternative thoughts?

    A single mistake or error immediately equates to non-omniscience. Examples may include being wrong about a single future prediction or being wrong about a future set of variables.

    A partial mistake or error also immediately equates to non-omniscience. Examples may include being partially wrong about certain variables pertaining to the future.

    Is it even logically possible for a single entity or a collection of entities to be omniscient?

  2. #2
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    It depends.

    Different religions or denominations have different apologetic arguments. For example, I was taught in my high school's apologetics class (Church of Christ) that the answer to the question "Can God create a rock he cannot lift" is that the answer is no, because God's omnipotence is within the context of God's role. That he can't do things he wouldn't do as a creator and God of humanity. There's not a single situation where he'd ever need or want to make a rock he couldn't lift, so he couldn't do it because he'd never do it. So it doesn't affect his omnipotence.

    Then if you ask Southern Baptists, I'm pretty sure the answer would be, "That's a ridiculous question meant to disprove God, and you should be ashamed of yourself and repent before you face your fiery damnation in the coming rapture."



    Anyways. Catholics have a different answer to that question, Mormons have a different answer to that question, Hindus have a different answer to the question for their gods... it depends on what kind of doctrine you're talking about.

    So you'll have to specify what you're talking about a bit deeper, since there's not just one concept of a "Creator", and definitely not just one explanation or interpretation of that Creator.
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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    Senior Member NK258's Avatar
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    Well considering I don't believe in a "creator" per se. . That means they can't know everything. I believe in the universe and some sort of order within the chaos but I see it as more of a natural phenomenon or "'law" like gravity. And gravity doesn't know everything. It just ... is.

    So I think of it like that. God for lack of a better term, or rather, for the sake of simplicity, just .. is. The creator doesn't know anything .. they just are. Like the ocean or sky or Sun ...
    6w7 Sx/Sp (621 or 612. Same diff :p).

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    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    A favorite paradox of mine:

    If God, an omnipotent and omniscient being, creates something that he cannot know and cannot control, does God cease to be omniscient and omnipotent?

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    First you have to define what you mean by "omnipotent" and "omniscient". Unfortunately in the context of this subject, people often have different definitions, as has already been demonstrated by the commenting posts.

    And if, as I suspect, the definition involves an ability to do or be 'something', I would then ask: If the creator does not exercise that ability to its fullest extent, can it still be considered omni-x?

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    The attributes of a creator can't fully be intuited with reasoning, because they are the creator of reason and therefore beyond and and also the source of reason, structure and law.

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    I remember reading at one point the idea of how the divine made/makes/is making part of itself unaware so as to perpetuate growth and moving into union such that there can be appreciation.

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    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    if there's a creator, who's to say he/she/it didn't make the rules of the universe? like when games are invented, the gamemaker(s) create the rules. same concept. I'm not saying there is a creator nor that there isn't, I don't know. I also don't care, it's not that important to me, I'll find out when I'm dead.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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    Well, God wants you to worship him, as in dedicate every waking second of your life to his will. If you're worshiping him, the ultimate motivation for your actions is God; ergo, you cannot "worship" God because you want to get to Heaven, because you'd be doing it to get yourself to Heaven, not for God.

    And God lets innocent people die, right? Even if they're doing his service.

    Ergo, to be a follower of God you do not care what happens to you.

    So faith in God is not the subjective "mission to get to Heaven" as modern followers like to think. God is love. If you're selfless enough, if your goals are selfless and you try to become more selfless, you'll be able to follow God.

    So we can say that God is still not only omnipotent (because he can control anything but chooses not to,) but also omniscient for the same reason. It's not about you and your petty little paradise, it's about him.

    So all the people who came here hoping to go to heaven and see their family and friends again, please leave the room.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    A favorite paradox of mine:

    If God, an omnipotent and omniscient being, creates something that he cannot know and cannot control, does God cease to be omniscient and omnipotent?
    I think if there was a case like that, God would still be omnipotent but not omniscient. God would know more than its creation. In other words, simply being more powerful than its creation is enough to suffice the definition of omnipotence.

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