Agnostic/Atheistic Reincarnation V2 ( now with 100% more Super-Consciousness)

[Alea_iacta_est]

(I'd advise reading the first thread over before reading this one if you haven't seen this before, otherwise you are going to be utterly lost)

A few weeks ago, I had a thread titled "An Atheistic/Agnostic viewpoint on Reincarnation", where I discussed the contradiction of Existence and Nonexistence, and the cycle of life and death through what could be described as pseudo-reincarnation. This thread will be more concise in my explanation and will elaborate more on something I have termed the "super-consciousness", which is merely a title for something that can't truly be described in terms of consciousness and mind (spoiler: it's nothing and everything).

From my last thread, I mentioned that we would be "reincarnated" again after falling into the black abyss that is death, and this raised a lot of points concerning the fact that consciousness is a product of the brain; therefore, it must cease to exist when the brain ceases to exist, which is actually entirely true. Therefore, it must also be true that when we die, we dissociate from ourselves. Our consciousness, our mind, our memories, and our thoughts fade from existence. We cease to be ourselves, and enter the plane of nonexistence.

(You may need reference back to the old thread to reach my conclusion, which is on page 2 of this sub-forum I think)
If you will recall, I explained in the other thread how there is no such thing as nonexistence if there is an existence. I did this by using our own births, the moment our consciousness awakened, to prove that there is infinite potential for something to exist if it did not exist beforehand. Through this logical system of proving nonexistence's apparent nonexistence, and using the fact that when we die, we cease to exist, then we come to the conclusion that we never truly stop existing when we die, an utter paradox. So if we don't stop existing, yet we don't function/experience/live/exist, then what happens? We go the route of nonexistence, which consequently is to come back into existence (from which we never left). The only other thing that could possibly happen would be to simply be reborn in another body.

Now, before someone calls this out, we aren't we by the time this has occurred. We are absolutely nothing, not consciousness, and nothing else. The way I have chosen to explain this is by using a concept that I have created called the "super-consciousness" (super only meaning above in this context). When we die, we transition to nonexistence, which I'm now going to call the super-consciousness ( I only use it in this context to help illustrate the idea, the super-consciousness is and isn't nonexistence truly). The super-consciousness has everywhere to go (because it is non-existent and has infinite potential to exist), but it has no physical, mental, or existing form. What can it do then? It can rejoin the plane of existence and occupy a body, which happens to contain a mind, a physical form, a consciousness, an identity, and etc. What I'm pointing to is that our consciousness does not transition with us (if we can even call ourselves "us" at this point), but the point-of-view does, and that is what the super-consciousness represents, the point-of-view. We die, and with us our consciousness, our mind, and all of our personality; however, the super-consciousness survives because it always has, which is in part due to the fact that it is, essentially, nothing.

I'll answer any questions and will elaborate on any other detail that are requested to be illustrated more clearly.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

I think you'll like this.

http://www.basicincome.com/bp/thepresenthastwohalves.htm

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

I think you'll like this

http://www.basicincome.com/bp/thepresenthastwohalves.htm

Thanks, I've seen this guy's name everywhere but I have no idea who the hell he is, delving into the article now.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

[MENTION=15318]Nights and Days[/MENTION] Holy shit this article is trying to get at the same concept as I am. Looked up the guy on Wikipedia and he seems to be a pretty influential person.

"He has influenced many thinkers, including Friedrich Nietzsche,[10] Richard Wagner, Otto Weininger, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Erwin Schrödinger, Albert Einstein,[11] Sigmund Freud, Otto Rank, Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Leo Tolstoy, Thomas Mann, Jorge Luis Borges, Mustafa Mahmud and Edouard d'Araille among others."

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

[MENTION=15318]Nights and Days[/MENTION] Holy shit this article is trying to get at the same concept as I am. Looked up the guy on Wikipedia and he seems to be a pretty influential person.

"He has influenced many thinkers, including Friedrich Nietzsche,[10] Richard Wagner, Otto Weininger, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Erwin Schrödinger, Albert Einstein,[11] Sigmund Freud, Otto Rank, Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Leo Tolstoy, Thomas Mann, Jorge Luis Borges, Mustafa Mahmud and Edouard d'Araille among others."

Aye.

Have fun.

 

[zago]

My realization of this same concept was salvia-induced. I used to love salvia, and I would have sessions where I would smoke it several times in succession. First hit would be small, a way to dip my toe in and test the water. Next hit, medium, a way to more fully enter salvia-land. 3rd hit would be big enough to take me away from physical reality and time completely. When I "woke up" from it I would take a couple more medium ones and straddle reality and the dreamworld.

It occurred to me in that time that my consciousness was doing exactly that, floating around freely, choosing to occupy various realities and localities and bodies. I remember looking at my hands and realizing, wow, I am actually a primate.. my consciousness just happened to land in this primate body. Another body, another reality, is just a thought away. It could switch like changing channels on the TV. The TV is not the channel that's on it, though. I am the TV.

In another sense, I am electricity. An electronic object is dead matter until electricity flows through it.

Where this idea really becomes grand is realizing, reincarnation doesn't have to happen on earth after you die. It could happen anywhere in the universe. Maybe even in the multiverse. When I die my consciousness could go to an alien world on the Andromeda galaxy, or even a parallel reality where the rules look completely different.

Our reality is very thin. Flimsy. Ingest the right chemical, and suddenly it's completely gone and there's a new, alien world all around you. Is salvia a key to parallel realities? Is it a message left for us from aliens that allow us to interface with their reality? Mysteries.

 

[AzulEyes]

Wow- there is a lot of thought put into these theories. I'm a believer in God and God has made clear what our existence is. Our souls are pre-determined and at the time of conception we exist in human form. Our souls leave our bodies at death- if anything- we have a furthering consciousness as we now know the earth life and the hereafter. Our bodies are just a vehicle- our souls are everlasting.

I'm not looking to debate- just recognizing the creativity and work put into this thesis and just sharing my life view.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Wow- there is a lot of thought put into these theories. I'm a believer in God and God has made clear what our existence is. Our souls are pre-determined and at the time of conception we exist in human form. Our souls leave our bodies at death- if anything- we have a furthering consciousness as we now know the earth life and the hereafter. Our bodies are just a vehicle- our souls are everlasting.

I'm not looking to debate- just recognizing the creativity and work put into this thesis and just sharing my life view.

Not trying to debate either, but did you reach that conclusion on your own, or were you raised into those beliefs?

If you did come to that conclusion on your own, why?

 

[AzulEyes]

Not trying to debate either, but did you reach that conclusion on your own, or were you raised into those beliefs?

If you did come to that conclusion on your own, why?

Raised believing in God.
It was firm but not shoved down my throat.
I went through my "how do I know this is right?" phase in my twenties and I searched.
I was actually surprised to come back to the faith I was raised in- and find security in its truth.
I also have experienced dreams of relatives that have departed and other spiritual experiences that only continue to strengthen my beliefs.

We are meant to think and utilize our free will, but submitting our egos to a higheer power is what frees us from the choke-hold of this world- this life. We are not meant to hold the entire world on our shoulders and have it figured out and be "all that." We can actually admit that we are miniscule nothings- needing to do the best we can- with the abilities we are each born with. We tend to complicate things.

 

[INTP]

You are describing this "super-consciousness" as some next level that is also something you say that doesent exist, but yet you say that it does exist . Makes no sense.

Anyways, when your brains rot, you lose the ability to experience consciousness or anything else. But what happens before the rotting is according to my beliefs something similar to what tibetan book of the dead(which is based on egyptian book of the dead) says, however i dont think the reincarnation part holds true as they explain it. They pretty much say that you get stuck in your complexes(personal demons) and need to fight through them in order to reincarnate or else you get stuck in the limbo. What i think the christian view of the afterlife is this limbo, but when a person with strong belief of the afterlife with a thought that he will go to heaven, the limbo will act as the "heaven"(as long as the person will judge himself as worthy of heaven, or else he will be stuck in the limbo with his inner demons and image of hell in mind).
Like the buddhists, i dont think that this limbo is a heaven or some place "out there", but its all in your head(they actually try to convince recently passed away people by telling them that they are dead and that what they experience isnt real and tries to convince the person to move on and not get seduced by the fantasies).
What comes to reincarnation, i think its just the atoms in your body being transferred to maggots etc which will be transferred to plants or birds etc and you return to the cycle of life which is where you came from and which you are part of even when you live.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

You are describing this "super-consciousness" as some next level that is also something you say that doesent exist, but yet you say that it does exist . Makes no sense.

Anyways, when your brains rot, you lose the ability to experience consciousness or anything else. But what happens before the rotting is according to my beliefs something similar to what tibetan book of the dead(which is based on egyptian book of the dead) says, however i dont think the reincarnation part holds true as they explain it. They pretty much say that you get stuck in your complexes(personal demons) and need to fight through them in order to reincarnate or else you get stuck in the limbo. What i think the christian view of the afterlife is this limbo, but when a person with strong belief of the afterlife with a thought that he will go to heaven, the limbo will act as the "heaven"(as long as the person will judge himself as worthy of heaven, or else he will be stuck in the limbo with his inner demons and image of hell in mind).
Like the buddhists, i dont think that this limbo is a heaven or some place "out there", but its all in your head(they actually try to convince recently passed away people by telling them that they are dead and that what they experience isnt real and tries to convince the person to move on and not get seduced by the fantasies).
What comes to reincarnation, i think its just the atoms in your body being transferred to maggots etc which will be transferred to plants or birds etc and you return to the cycle of life which is where you came from and which you are part of even when you live.

That's an interesting belief. That seems akin to the old tale that when you die, time slows down and you just relive your life through your memories from start to finish over and over until the end of time.

The whole point behind the super-consciousness was to be used as a metaphor for something that can't be described, the transition state. In the other thread, I had people keep telling me that I was indicating that a person's conscious became free of the person's body after death, which I am not. Therefore, I had to personify/humanize the concept of a person's point of view diminishing into nonexistence and then reemerging in existence without people thinking I was referring to consciousness surviving and separating after death. It's essentially a vehicle that shifts our point of view to the next body.

When I was alluding to the super-consciousness's existing and non-existing, I was also referencing my other thread, which is titled "The Hub - an Agnostic/Atheistic Standpoint on Reincarnation" that explained why nonexistence is impossible and a paradox. The super-consciousness doesn't exist in the context that nonexistence doesn't exist, but it does exist in the context that it describes nonexistence's non-existing (I can't believe I actually wrote that sentence). Again, if you haven't read the other thread's existence and nonexistence contradiction, that entire sentence means nothing.