User Tag List

First 4567 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 63

  1. #51
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ESI Fi
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    Evil is subjective to each individual.

    If you are saying why do we have wars, crimes, gangs, etc..?

    Then it's because of our own domestication process.

    In which one of the biggest by-products is Shame. Along with many other things.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  2. #52
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    evil is just suffering and lack of love funding a war between shame and anger.

    shame is the fear of being excommunicated, of having your humanity abandon you. it is the part of us that must go into hiding, a kind of shared socially embodied shadow. the way we inherit it, it towers over us, it casts its shadow upon us. our communicable disease.

    evil is the result of that process meeting the anger of the body that will not submit to its judgment, whose fear has taken away its capacity to be shared and released in a constructive, heart-opening way. softened. who no longer believes in the future, in peace, in the possibility of finding wholeness, in healing. when the drive toward death is more attractive than the drive toward life.

    it's just a cancerous process brought about by the devastation of the ecology of a system. our sense of it is a recognition of that which destroys wholeness. the ultimate dead-end. it's a kind of emotional, relational, social undoing that is spread across all levels of our experience of the distributed self.

    it arises within us, within our judgment, and not the act itself. it's when we say, you are not worth it anymore.

    as far as the doing harm idea, doing harm to others is something that prevents us from allowing you to be with us, that makes you not worth it for us. self-destruction and other-destruction generally go hand in hand. this is simply what we say when we can't own our own inability to give more, when we can't simply acknowledge our needed boundaries, when we need to be right instead of recognize the conflict of our own needs within ourselves and between others, and trust ourselves to act out of an awareness of them.

    evil is just the end of empathy, what we impose through our own limitations.

  3. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Evil is subjective to each individual.

    If you are saying why do we have wars, crimes, gangs, etc..?

    Then it's because of our own domestication process.

    In which one of the biggest by-products is Shame. Along with many other things.
    I did indeed mean what is in bold.

    Can you elaborate on how shame creates wars?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    evil is just suffering and lack of love funding a war between shame and anger.

    shame is the fear of being excommunicated, of having your humanity abandon you. it is the part of us that must go into hiding, a kind of shared socially embodied shadow. the way we inherit it, it towers over us, it casts its shadow upon us. our communicable disease.

    evil is the result of that process meeting the anger of the body that will not submit to its judgment, whose fear has taken away its capacity to be shared and released in a constructive, heart-opening way. softened. who no longer believes in the future, in peace, in the possibility of finding wholeness, in healing. when the drive toward death is more attractive than the drive toward life.

    it's just a cancerous process brought about by the devastation of the ecology of a system. our sense of it is a recognition of that which destroys wholeness. the ultimate dead-end. it's a kind of emotional, relational, social undoing that is spread across all levels of our experience of the distributed self.

    it arises within us, within our judgment, and not the act itself. it's when we say, you are not worth it anymore.

    as far as the doing harm idea, doing harm to others is something that prevents us from allowing you to be with us, that makes you not worth it for us. self-destruction and other-destruction generally go hand in hand. this is simply what we say when we can't own our own inability to give more, when we can't simply acknowledge our needed boundaries, when we need to be right instead of recognize the conflict of our own needs within ourselves and between others, and trust ourselves to act out of an awareness of them.

    evil is just the end of empathy, what we impose through our own limitations.
    One interpretation of this might be that avoiding shaming of others is more moral than avoiding harm to others. Is this a logical consequence of what you meant?

    Another interpretation is that shaming others is how morality is built, and therefore what we must do. Is this a logical consequence of what you meant?

    I accept that the what is good vs. evil are within each of us, and cannot be separated. However, we perceive a self that makes decisions. What principles can guide our choices?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #55
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ESI Fi
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I did indeed mean what is in bold.

    Can you elaborate on how shame creates wars?
    this was supposed to be the "short version" ha ha, didn't happen.



    We feel bad about ourselves, we question our self worth (which is innate, there is no need to strive to earn it...you already are worthy....), and then our ego's have to make up for it.

    The ego manifests itself in many ways.

    One of them is in thinking there's not enough to go around. It's a bullshit concept. People just look at the negative and pass on their negative thinking to their children (on the small scale)

    Large scale....greed. People think having more makes them more worthy...but it's a bottomless pit. There's never enough.

    It just all falls back on what we've been passed on for years. We don't take responsibility for ourselves in the situations that we can. We are domesticated to think there's something wrong with us (there's the shame), therefore play the victim our whole lives (there's the not taking or passing on responsibility part) Some more than others...of course.

    We are hurt by our parents cause they shame us from acting the ways they don't want us to act. (usually what their subjective definition of "evil" is....you know...probably something like not sharing, hitting, taking without asking, etc....we all do these things....there's no denying it. The more you deny and shame for shit like this, the more it gets suppressed and manifests later in unhealthy ways...later down the road in adult life. And the more problems you have as a kid the more your subconscious spends the rest of you life trying to re-live and solve those problems. Hence the reason why a girl can walk into a room filled with about 40 men, and pick the ONLY one that is an alcoholic....just because her dad was an alcoholic....so the same goes for murderers....they probably have something mentally wrong with them...but along with that, they have most likely been craving intimacy and control...so they get those things by killing someone, cause that's one of the biggest ways to get those things...stuff like that)

    Then we despise our parents after years of the same bs...

    Then we play victim and seek revenge.

    It could be anybody's story...

    It actually IS everybody's story. In one way or another...Some more extreme than others.....of course





    Good and evil are two sides of the same coin.

    The more we try to bring about one side...the more a shadow forms....



    And to bring that back into typology...lol let's just say that you're an E5...and your parents think you should be more outgoing...that judgment or "evil" of not being outgoing enough...is subjective......

    There's nothing wrong with someone not being outgoing.

    So in my opinion....we shame what we think the "in crowd" would shame. So that we have children that fit in.

    This covers both nature and nurture.

    So again, your answer is: our domestication process. It's detrimental. The fact that people think that there are "evil" things, is detrimental in itself.

    but nobody likes to be told any of this...so I'd keep it on the dl. Even me. I will admit that I find things to be evil...and don't like them....and if someone was to tell me that it was not evil...that it was neutral....and I'm just passing judgment....I would probably get annoyed as well. Cause, you see, I too, have been domesticated lol. (Nobody likes to be told their wrong. That would be a form of shame btw..) and that would make them feel unlovable and unworthy.

    Next question?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  6. #56
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Default

    What creates evil is synonomous with, what created the shoah or the holocaust?

    And what can be done about it, has been answered in 1948 with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    And what can we do about it today is synonomous with, how can we defend the Universal Declaration of Human Rights against those who seek to overthrow it?

    And those who seek to overthrow Universal Human Rights have publicly declared themselves. They are the OIC (the Organisation of Islamic Co-operation) consisting of 57 Islamic nations who are members of the United Nations. And they are also the marxist Left who have made an historic alliance with the Islamists to overthrow Universal Human Rights.

  7. #57
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    151

    Default

    I contend that evil doesn't exist apart from the human mind and its conception of evil. Unlike a stovetop or guitar, you can't point to evil as an objective, tangible thing in the real world.

  8. #58
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    I contend that evil doesn't exist apart from the human mind and its conception of evil. Unlike a stovetop or guitar, you can't point to evil as an objective, tangible thing in the real world.
    We are meaning creating animals. And we create meaning by creating distinctions, and the more distinctions we create, the more meaning we create.

    So we create the distinction good/evil.

    Does the distinction exist? Or is the distinction a relationship between good and evil? Does a relationship exist?

    I find it hard to say distinctions don't exist, for without distinctions, there would be nothing.

  9. #59
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We are meaning creating animals. And we create meaning by creating distinctions, and the more distinctions we create, the more meaning we create.

    So we create the distinction good/evil.

    Does the distinction exist? Or is the distinction a relationship between good and evil? Does a relationship exist?

    I find it hard to say distinctions don't exist, for without distinctions, there would be nothing.
    Good and evil are simply lexical distinctions made by humans; these distinctions do not denote any real difference between the objects.

  10. #60
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Default The Unbearable Lightness of Being

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    Good and evil are simply lexical distinctions made by humans; these distinctions do not denote any real difference between the objects.
    Yes, the only difference between objects is the distinction we make between them.

    But I wouldn't say only lexical after all in John 1:1 we read - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    And this perhaps is the unbearable lightness of being.

Similar Threads

  1. What can you say about the character of the author of this piece?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-21-2013, 09:44 PM
  2. WHat can I do about rage?
    By Julius_Van_Der_Beak in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 10-22-2013, 03:21 PM
  3. Now that I know my type, what can I do with it?
    By wolfy in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 05-18-2009, 01:07 PM
  4. Do you think everything that should be done, can be done?
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-18-2008, 12:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO