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Is Happiness More Important Than Truth?

Forever_Jung

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Is a happy, successful life invalidated due to a lack of self-knowledge?

Or is an overly self-aware person's life invalidated due to their lack of success/happiness?

Many people think they are better than average, think they have more control over their lives than they do, and believe their life has meaning despite no real evidence to support this belief (in fact, sometimes the evidence strongly contradicts this belief). When they make a mistake, they forget about it, and when they succeed they identify with it (even when they fail far more than they succeed).

They go through their whole lives without questioning whether they have built their entire life on an imaginary foundation. They seem to believe anything, except reasonable arguments that might burst their bubble. I'm not saying these people are always wrong, I'm saying that even when they're right, it's pure dumb luck, since it's not like they really thought about it.

These people seem pretty happy to me. Obviously, they have struggles like anyone else, I just mean that their utter lack of awareness doesn't seem to hold them back at all. In fact, a lot of them seem happier/more successful than the people I know who strive for truth.

Is it so bad to delude yourself in little ways, if it allows you to function happily/effectively?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Many people think they are better than average, think they have more control over their lives than they do, and believe their life has meaning despite no real evidence to support this belief (in fact, sometimes the evidence strongly contradicts this belief).
sheeple.jpg

It isn't per-say bad for people to live what they perceive to be their true self, but if it gets unhealthy it'll go downhill quick. As you say, some people truly believe that they are better than average (I'll even admit myself to this), but in some cases they might be and in other cases they may not be. If the ideal self diverges from any real grounding however, then you have a developing NPD, and that can be a problem/detriment to others.

I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.
 

Forever_Jung

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View attachment 10851

It isn't per-say bad for people to live what they perceive to be their true self, but if it gets unhealthy it'll go downhill quick. As you say, some people truly believe that they are better than average (I'll even admit myself to this), but in some cases they might be and in other cases they may not be. If the ideal self diverges from any real grounding however, then you have a developing NPD, and that can be a problem/detriment to others.

I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.

Yes, that comic is very poignant, and I've seen it before. In fact, I was careful not to make this thread too much about me saying: wake up sheeple, I'm so wise!

I'm actually wondering if self-knowledge is all that valuable. The people who seem most concerned with understanding the world often seem neurotic and unhappy to me. Some of the most grounded and happy people I know, seem a bit deluded. I don't mean deluded in a super negative sense per se...

You know how people mythologize their relationship to make it seem meant to be? They construct this narrative that is mostly hokum, but they seem happier for it. That's all I mean by "deluded".

Edit:

I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.

Sure. I would too. I'm just wondering if I ought to believe it. I get the appeal, but should I just believe things I find agreeable?
 

Alea_iacta_est

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Yes, that comic is very poignant, and I've seen it before. In fact, I was careful not to make this thread too much about me saying: wake up sheeple, I'm so wise!

I'm actually wondering if self-knowledge is all that valuable. The people who seem most concerned with understanding the world often seem neurotic and unhappy to me. Some of the most grounded and happy people I know, seem a bit deluded.

The people who identify with themselves and see themselves for what they are have the deepest understanding of life yet usually lack the drive to do anything with it for they see themselves as insignificant in the grand scheme.

I think the best option is recognizing your flaws but also recognizing your strengths and perhaps giving a slight ideal image of your strengths to allow room for motivation, and I live by this. I recognize myself as a remorseless bastard with deficiencies in sympathy and empathy, which would be extremely depressing to anyone wanting to look upon themselves in a positive light, but I counteract that by waving the delusion of being able to better the world in spite of my own shortcomings, which in reality isn't as delusional as it sounds if one is motivated by the delusion.
 

Mole

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They construct this narrative that is mostly hokum, but they seem happier for it. That's all I mean by "deluded".

Well, the God delusion is the ur-delusion on which all the other delusions are based.

The deluded have no dignity.
 

Forever_Jung

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Well, the God delusion is the ur-delusion on which all the other delusions are based.

The deluded have no dignity.

I understand your first sentence, but I can't quite make the leap to the second one. I'm not sure if you find it tiresome/unpleasant to explain yourself to the slower students, but I would appreciate it if you did.
 

Mole

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I understand your first sentence, but I can't quite make the leap to the second one. I'm not sure if you find it tiresome/unpleasant to explain yourself to the slower students, but I would appreciate it if you did.

Delusion is the easy way out from a difficult or impossible situation. So while delusion may be understandable it is less than we can be.

Our dignity depends on our integrity and courage.

And while we don't expect many to have integrity and courage, we recognise that those who do have a dignity appropriate for the free and equal.

Dignity means standing on one's own two feet like a mensch and not leaning on a delusion like a weasel or a stoat.
 

OptoGypsy

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Happiness= Mortgages, debt and the longing to be the best person in your community to impress others, so "the sheep" will look up to you when the majority don't give a Fuck as you continue to care of the opinions others have of you to continue building up your ego.

Truth: You know who you are and what you are capable off. You don't feel like you need to do anything because you don't really care about how others perceive you. You're not living your life for them you're living your life for yourself. Since you no longer feel like you need to do anything you do what you want to do. Your want's can be anything from writing a screen-play/doing stand up to helping out children and the elderly. (There is so much possibilities that I don't want to count them all and give you guys a concrete number) This brings in true happiness since it is what you desired/wanted to do not something you felt obliged to do.

The Truth brings in true happiness while "Happiness" is an illusion that you force yourself to live in.
I live with the Truth, to have common sense (to be humble because I know I'm not the shit and to perceive the world for what it is in curiosity always questioning the world around me and myself) which is so rare these days that I'm confident in calling myself a Super Hero.
 

HongDou

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I've learned to appreciate the parts of the "truth" that I consider positive and accept the parts of the "truth" that I consider negative. You can't have light without darkness after all. Plus life wouldn't feel as satisfying if you were constantly happy. It'd be like riding a roller coaster without the ups and downs or twists and turns.

At the end of the day though, I'd rather be able to say "I lived a happy life" on my deathbed instead of "I was right."
 

Cellmold

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Happiness and truth eh?

Can one perhaps find happiness in truth? Even if truth is not always pleasant? The only thing I can say for existential revelations is that they only reveal our ignorance, not necessarily a truth towards insignificance or significance, as what defines those concepts is always human and always of our own construction.

Given what we know scientifically, of the reality our senses claim is real, in a literal sense we could be seen as insignificant from a point of size in an extremely vast uni....or possibly multiverse. But I suspect we are the only ones keeping tabs on that kind of significance...yknow? Since it involves us and we are the only ones who care about us....well as far as I know anyhow.

As for a more descartian viewpoint, that is one which presents more of an issue for an individual considering happiness and truth. There are no actual clues as to what really exists and it is a conundrum which may plague us as a species for as long as we exist.

One of the few truths I can grasp with my limited ability to understand this line of thinking, is that we don't really know what truth actually is, we can empirically bring an answer to our outward, sensory environment and pick apart it's makeup in our own definitions which work for us, but even then those definitions are for our usage.

Essentially it's just an enormous amount of personal perception and distortion and maybe that is the only real truth about our species. I wouldn't presume that an apparently happy person had not necessarily considered the thoughts outlined in this thread, a large amount of it is sometimes accepting that we might not know something, even if it comes back to itch at our minds continually, and the drive for truth in that mess can be incredibly frustrating.

So sometimes, I don't think it is always bad to put aside apparent truth for an acceptance that we cannot be quite certain and perhaps get some brief enjoyment out of our small existences....as long as there is not an imbalance too far in a singular direction and truth or happiness are being denied outright to the harm of ourselves or others.
 

greenfairy

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I don't judge if people lack introspection and deep thought in general unless it affects other people negatively. I think whatever works for someone is what they should do, while being responsible for the consequences of their actions.

As for myself, I always seek truth, but this never puts me in conflict with happiness because knowing truth makes me happy and my happiness is not dependent upon certain states of reality.
 

Fluffywolf

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I personally fail to see the dichotomy.

To me truth is paramount to happiness. The phrase 'ingorance is bliss' has always rubbed me the wrong way.

I would argue that such blissful happiness is delusional happiness and therefor not true happiness at all.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

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As for myself, I always seek truth, but this never puts me in conflict with happiness because knowing truth makes me happy and my happiness is not dependent upon certain states of reality.

Well, what if the truth is incredibly unpleasant? What if your most profound fears turned out to be true, and you discovered that the reality you are in is one so horrifying, that you would find it difficult to simply go on?

I personally fail to see the dichotomy.

To me truth is paramount to happiness. The phrase 'ingorance is bliss' has always rubbed me the wrong way.

I would argue that such blissful happiness is delusional happiness and therefor not true happiness at all.

Yes, but does it really matter if what some people experience as "happiness" is really "fake happiness", assuming they don't know the difference?
 
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