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  1. #1
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Default Is Happiness More Important Than Truth?

    Is a happy, successful life invalidated due to a lack of self-knowledge?

    Or is an overly self-aware person's life invalidated due to their lack of success/happiness?

    Many people think they are better than average, think they have more control over their lives than they do, and believe their life has meaning despite no real evidence to support this belief (in fact, sometimes the evidence strongly contradicts this belief). When they make a mistake, they forget about it, and when they succeed they identify with it (even when they fail far more than they succeed).

    They go through their whole lives without questioning whether they have built their entire life on an imaginary foundation. They seem to believe anything, except reasonable arguments that might burst their bubble. I'm not saying these people are always wrong, I'm saying that even when they're right, it's pure dumb luck, since it's not like they really thought about it.

    These people seem pretty happy to me. Obviously, they have struggles like anyone else, I just mean that their utter lack of awareness doesn't seem to hold them back at all. In fact, a lot of them seem happier/more successful than the people I know who strive for truth.

    Is it so bad to delude yourself in little ways, if it allows you to function happily/effectively?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Many people think they are better than average, think they have more control over their lives than they do, and believe their life has meaning despite no real evidence to support this belief (in fact, sometimes the evidence strongly contradicts this belief).
    sheeple.jpg

    It isn't per-say bad for people to live what they perceive to be their true self, but if it gets unhealthy it'll go downhill quick. As you say, some people truly believe that they are better than average (I'll even admit myself to this), but in some cases they might be and in other cases they may not be. If the ideal self diverges from any real grounding however, then you have a developing NPD, and that can be a problem/detriment to others.

    I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.

  3. #3
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Not for me, that is the exact opposite of my philosophy.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    sheeple.jpg

    It isn't per-say bad for people to live what they perceive to be their true self, but if it gets unhealthy it'll go downhill quick. As you say, some people truly believe that they are better than average (I'll even admit myself to this), but in some cases they might be and in other cases they may not be. If the ideal self diverges from any real grounding however, then you have a developing NPD, and that can be a problem/detriment to others.

    I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.
    Yes, that comic is very poignant, and I've seen it before. In fact, I was careful not to make this thread too much about me saying: wake up sheeple, I'm so wise!

    I'm actually wondering if self-knowledge is all that valuable. The people who seem most concerned with understanding the world often seem neurotic and unhappy to me. Some of the most grounded and happy people I know, seem a bit deluded. I don't mean deluded in a super negative sense per se...

    You know how people mythologize their relationship to make it seem meant to be? They construct this narrative that is mostly hokum, but they seem happier for it. That's all I mean by "deluded".

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I'd rather live a life believing I'm superior than being told that I'm insignificant and dying believing I was nothing more than average to be quite frank.
    Sure. I would too. I'm just wondering if I ought to believe it. I get the appeal, but should I just believe things I find agreeable?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Not for me, that is the exact opposite of my philosophy.
    How is that working for you? And I mean that in earnest, I'm genuinely curious.

  6. #6
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Is it so bad to delude yourself in little ways, if it allows you to function happily/effectively?
    'Tell me, tell me' I say, casting longing eyes, and taking another sip of chardonay, 'beautiful lies!'

  7. #7
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Yes, that comic is very poignant, and I've seen it before. In fact, I was careful not to make this thread too much about me saying: wake up sheeple, I'm so wise!

    I'm actually wondering if self-knowledge is all that valuable. The people who seem most concerned with understanding the world often seem neurotic and unhappy to me. Some of the most grounded and happy people I know, seem a bit deluded.
    The people who identify with themselves and see themselves for what they are have the deepest understanding of life yet usually lack the drive to do anything with it for they see themselves as insignificant in the grand scheme.

    I think the best option is recognizing your flaws but also recognizing your strengths and perhaps giving a slight ideal image of your strengths to allow room for motivation, and I live by this. I recognize myself as a remorseless bastard with deficiencies in sympathy and empathy, which would be extremely depressing to anyone wanting to look upon themselves in a positive light, but I counteract that by waving the delusion of being able to better the world in spite of my own shortcomings, which in reality isn't as delusional as it sounds if one is motivated by the delusion.

  8. #8
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    How is that working for you? And I mean that in earnest, I'm genuinely curious.
    Difficult but fulfilling.

  9. #9
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    They construct this narrative that is mostly hokum, but they seem happier for it. That's all I mean by "deluded".
    Well, the God delusion is the ur-delusion on which all the other delusions are based.

    The deluded have no dignity.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Well, the God delusion is the ur-delusion on which all the other delusions are based.

    The deluded have no dignity.
    I understand your first sentence, but I can't quite make the leap to the second one. I'm not sure if you find it tiresome/unpleasant to explain yourself to the slower students, but I would appreciate it if you did.

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