• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Is Happiness More Important Than Truth?

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yes, but does it really matter if what some people experience as "happiness" is really "fake happiness", assuming they don't know the difference?

You raise an interesting thought.

If a lack of knowledge means that a person can be happy with less than the truth as known by others, then the happiness felt by those who know the most truth can also be considered fake happiness. For no one is omniscient. But then, if real happiness is the kind of happiness a person can feel being the most true to what that person is capable of feeling, we can assume two different possibilities.

One is that all happiness felt, regardless of how much truth there is to that happiness from outside perspective, is true happiness.

The other is that all happiness felt is delusional, for there is always more truth to be found beyond the scopes of ones perception.



This also reminds me to a topic I once made in which I made a case for the fact that happiness and contentment in general is a counter-productive feeling that leads to inaction, and arguebly the best course of action to take, could be to deliberatly feel unhappy so that one may continue to grow and expand as a person in their all elusive quest to attain happiness.

After all, there is no drive as strong as unhappiness to propel a person into a bright future.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, what if the truth is incredibly unpleasant? What if your most profound fears turned out to be true, and you discovered that the reality you are in is one so horrifying, that you would find it difficult to simply go on?
I don't really think that would happen. I'm fine with any reality; I'll just adjust my perspective. Sure I'll have emotions about it, but not amounting to wishing reality were different; it's just a temporary subjective reality consisting of my enjoyment or lack thereof. I think if I suffer then it is due to some illusion on my part and attachment to desire. In any case, wishing things were different if you can't do anything to change the situation doesn't do any good.

Edit: There is one situation I could think of in which that might be true- if the biosphere got destroyed. Then I would feel like such a big part of me was missing (because I feel like the biosphere and I are part of one whole) that it would really be hard to go on. I really don't know how I would react in that situation.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
In theory, happiness has primacy and is therefore better and more important than truth.

However, in practical scenarios, I am often skeptical of plans for maintaining happiness with falsehoods. I think it tends to set people up for future failures, or passes the buck onto other people.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
You raise an interesting thought.

If a lack of knowledge means that a person can be happy with less than the truth as known by others, then the happiness felt by those who know the most truth can also be considered fake happiness. For no one is omniscient. But then, if real happiness is the kind of happiness a person can feel being the most true to what that person is capable of feeling, we can assume two different possibilities.

One is that all happiness felt, regardless of how much truth there is to that happiness from outside perspective, is true happiness.

The other is that all happiness felt is delusional, for there is always more truth to be found beyond the scopes of ones perception.



This also reminds me to a topic I once made in which I made a case for the fact that happiness and contentment in general is a counter-productive feeling that leads to inaction, and arguebly the best course of action to take, could be to deliberatly feel unhappy so that one may continue to grow and expand as a person in their all elusive quest to attain happiness.

After all, there is no drive as strong as unhappiness to propel a person into a bright future.

:) Lovely thoughts. You get it.

I don't really think that would happen. I'm fine with any reality; I'll just adjust my perspective. Sure I'll have emotions about it, but not amounting to wishing reality were different; it's just a temporary subjective reality consisting of my enjoyment or lack thereof. I think if I suffer then it is due to some illusion on my part and attachment to desire. In any case, wishing things were different if you can't do anything to change the situation doesn't do any good.

What if upon waking one night, you found yourself in a nightmare you were certain was real, one from which there was no escape, no matter how much you fought, and one in which you could not simply "change your perspective"?

You seem very naïve, which is funny given the thread topic.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What if upon waking one night, you found yourself in a nightmare you were certain was real, one from which there was no escape, no matter how much you fought, and one in which you could not simply "change your perspective"?

You seem very naïve.
Like what? I can't think of an example. Not one in which I would prefer something other than truth. Obviously I'd rather not be raped and tortured, but (the prospect of) believing something which isn't real isn't going to make me feel better, and I'm not going to hold the Universe or God or whatever responsible for cosmic injustice. On the contrary, I think being depressed is naive due to not seeing the big picture.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Like what? I can't think of an example.

Immortality, madness, Hell, etc. Experiencing horrors over and over again, forever, without being able to forget or change perspective.. Use your imagination..

Do you even dream?
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Immortality, madness, Hell, etc. Experiencing horrors over and over again, forever, without being able to forget or change perspective.. Use your imagination..

Do you even dream?
Well two of those don't exist, so they wouldn't be an example of truth threatening my happiness. As for madness, I do fear that, but I trust myself to not let it happen. From what I gather, simply having dementia doesn't make you less happy than anyone else. That's an interesting example though, because you can't know and retain the truth. You have no choice but to be deluded, and most people fear it.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,559
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes, happiness is probably more important than truth.
 

Standuble

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,149
I would say truth is more important than happiness as happiness at the expense of truth is often an illusion. If you lay the truths down first you can then build a structure of happiness up from a firm foundation.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
A sane person is happy or unhappy in response to the reality around them.

Only an insane person is happy all the time, and only an insane person is unhappy all the time.

The New Age tries to make us happy all the time and so is illusory, and out of touch with reality, and so less than sane.
 

entpersonal

New member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
151
Only an insane person is happy all the time, and only an insane person is unhappy all the time.

So, if I become insane, is this basically a coin-flip between being happy and unhappy for the rest of my un/happy existence? :D
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
So, if I become insane, is this basically a coin-flip between being happy and unhappy 24/7? :D

If you are neurotic, you remain in touch with reality.

But if you are psychotic, you loose touch with reality.

And if you are psychotic, you are insane.

And if you are insane, your thoughts loose touch with reality, or your emotions loose touch with reality.

Those whose thoughts loose touch with reality are called schizophrenic, and those whose emotions loose touch with reality are called clinically depressed.

So in the case of manic depression you are right.
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
Truth is more important because to depart from reality always leads to disaster. It's like a stock market bubble - people get super happy and pumped up on lots of hype and buy, buy, buy.... to the extent that their actions no longer reflect fundamental reality. The bubble pops and suddenly they are much worse off than before because they wasted all their time and effort on what wasn't real.

Truth must be used to create happiness in whatever ways possible. That includes curing diseases and 'innocent until proven guilty' and working hard on something real that will provide for people.
 

entpersonal

New member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
151
Human dopamine channels are quicker to reward sex, food and suchlike than intellectual pursuits, which indicates nature herself promotes the pursuit of pleasure or happiness over the pursuit of truth or wisdom. After all, the pursuit of happiness, and by proxy mates and food sources, helps to perpetuate the species. Nature cares more about a man ejaculating in a woman's moist warmth than a man, or woman, discovering a novel philosophical approach towards explaining the socialization habits of kangaroos.
 

Firebird 8118

DJ Phoenix
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
3,134
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
279
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Even if the truth is painful, it's often better than happily living a lie. You can't live a lie forever, as much as you may want to, because sooner or later you will have to face the truth and move on.
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
Human dopamine channels are quicker to reward sex, food and suchlike than intellectual pursuits, which indicates nature herself promotes the pursuit of pleasure or happiness over the pursuit of truth or wisdom. After all, the pursuit of happiness, and by proxy mates and food sources, helps to perpetuate the species. Nature cares more about a man ejaculating in a woman's moist warmth than a man, or woman, discovering a novel philosophical approach towards explaining the socialization habits of kangaroos.

Then why don't men just rape?

I gotta ask..... are you danseen?
 

entpersonal

New member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
151
Then why don't men just rape?

I gotta ask..... are you danseen?

I am not. Who is danseen? And I can't speak for all men but I forgo rape because I cognize the negative repercussions on the victimized party. Also, I wouldn't get my jollies taking someone by force like that.
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
I am not. Who is danseen? And I can't speak for all men but I forgo rape because I cognize the negative repercussions on the victimized party. Also, I wouldn't get my jollies taking someone by force like that.

So you pursue truth and wisdom over pleasure? That's not what you said 2 posts ago.

Oh, and danseen is the guy who started this thread. You sound like him.
 
Top