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  1. #21
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Yes, but does it really matter if what some people experience as "happiness" is really "fake happiness", assuming they don't know the difference?
    You raise an interesting thought.

    If a lack of knowledge means that a person can be happy with less than the truth as known by others, then the happiness felt by those who know the most truth can also be considered fake happiness. For no one is omniscient. But then, if real happiness is the kind of happiness a person can feel being the most true to what that person is capable of feeling, we can assume two different possibilities.

    One is that all happiness felt, regardless of how much truth there is to that happiness from outside perspective, is true happiness.

    The other is that all happiness felt is delusional, for there is always more truth to be found beyond the scopes of ones perception.



    This also reminds me to a topic I once made in which I made a case for the fact that happiness and contentment in general is a counter-productive feeling that leads to inaction, and arguebly the best course of action to take, could be to deliberatly feel unhappy so that one may continue to grow and expand as a person in their all elusive quest to attain happiness.

    After all, there is no drive as strong as unhappiness to propel a person into a bright future.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #22
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Well, what if the truth is incredibly unpleasant? What if your most profound fears turned out to be true, and you discovered that the reality you are in is one so horrifying, that you would find it difficult to simply go on?
    I don't really think that would happen. I'm fine with any reality; I'll just adjust my perspective. Sure I'll have emotions about it, but not amounting to wishing reality were different; it's just a temporary subjective reality consisting of my enjoyment or lack thereof. I think if I suffer then it is due to some illusion on my part and attachment to desire. In any case, wishing things were different if you can't do anything to change the situation doesn't do any good.

    Edit: There is one situation I could think of in which that might be true- if the biosphere got destroyed. Then I would feel like such a big part of me was missing (because I feel like the biosphere and I are part of one whole) that it would really be hard to go on. I really don't know how I would react in that situation.

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    In theory, happiness has primacy and is therefore better and more important than truth.

    However, in practical scenarios, I am often skeptical of plans for maintaining happiness with falsehoods. I think it tends to set people up for future failures, or passes the buck onto other people.
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  4. #24
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    You raise an interesting thought.

    If a lack of knowledge means that a person can be happy with less than the truth as known by others, then the happiness felt by those who know the most truth can also be considered fake happiness. For no one is omniscient. But then, if real happiness is the kind of happiness a person can feel being the most true to what that person is capable of feeling, we can assume two different possibilities.

    One is that all happiness felt, regardless of how much truth there is to that happiness from outside perspective, is true happiness.

    The other is that all happiness felt is delusional, for there is always more truth to be found beyond the scopes of ones perception.



    This also reminds me to a topic I once made in which I made a case for the fact that happiness and contentment in general is a counter-productive feeling that leads to inaction, and arguebly the best course of action to take, could be to deliberatly feel unhappy so that one may continue to grow and expand as a person in their all elusive quest to attain happiness.

    After all, there is no drive as strong as unhappiness to propel a person into a bright future.
    Lovely thoughts. You get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I don't really think that would happen. I'm fine with any reality; I'll just adjust my perspective. Sure I'll have emotions about it, but not amounting to wishing reality were different; it's just a temporary subjective reality consisting of my enjoyment or lack thereof. I think if I suffer then it is due to some illusion on my part and attachment to desire. In any case, wishing things were different if you can't do anything to change the situation doesn't do any good.
    What if upon waking one night, you found yourself in a nightmare you were certain was real, one from which there was no escape, no matter how much you fought, and one in which you could not simply "change your perspective"?

    You seem very naïve, which is funny given the thread topic.

  5. #25
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    What if upon waking one night, you found yourself in a nightmare you were certain was real, one from which there was no escape, no matter how much you fought, and one in which you could not simply "change your perspective"?

    You seem very naïve.
    Like what? I can't think of an example. Not one in which I would prefer something other than truth. Obviously I'd rather not be raped and tortured, but (the prospect of) believing something which isn't real isn't going to make me feel better, and I'm not going to hold the Universe or God or whatever responsible for cosmic injustice. On the contrary, I think being depressed is naive due to not seeing the big picture.

  6. #26
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Like what? I can't think of an example.
    Immortality, madness, Hell, etc. Experiencing horrors over and over again, forever, without being able to forget or change perspective.. Use your imagination..

    Do you even dream?

  7. #27
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Immortality, madness, Hell, etc. Experiencing horrors over and over again, forever, without being able to forget or change perspective.. Use your imagination..

    Do you even dream?
    Well two of those don't exist, so they wouldn't be an example of truth threatening my happiness. As for madness, I do fear that, but I trust myself to not let it happen. From what I gather, simply having dementia doesn't make you less happy than anyone else. That's an interesting example though, because you can't know and retain the truth. You have no choice but to be deluded, and most people fear it.

  8. #28
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Yes, happiness is probably more important than truth.

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  9. #29
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    I would say truth is more important than happiness as happiness at the expense of truth is often an illusion. If you lay the truths down first you can then build a structure of happiness up from a firm foundation.

  10. #30
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    A sane person is happy or unhappy in response to the reality around them.

    Only an insane person is happy all the time, and only an insane person is unhappy all the time.

    The New Age tries to make us happy all the time and so is illusory, and out of touch with reality, and so less than sane.

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