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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default The good life and man's relation to society

    Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

    Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

    Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

    Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

    This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

    This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    (I'm the pink "feeler" and you are the green "thinker")
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #3
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

    Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

    Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

    Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.
    Why do we presume that Aristotle achieved this "ideal" state of happiness? Or that he necessarily found inner peace?

    Vision and tranquility are incidental terms. Neither presupposes the other.
    Happiness isn't a theoretical framework. Its anatomy is intimate to the user and is not a term we can objectively consider.

    As a rose to one, a thorn to another...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.
    Dispassion? Emotional moderation and dispassion are entirely different systems.

    Dispassion is clinical. It focuses on the empirical chips available with one's substrate. Dispassionate evaluation is an appropriate technique when one wants to diagnose and diagram for later utility. Distance from one's subject is critical.

    Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language and as a lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.
    You conclusion is problematically linear.

    If man wants peace, he will dispassionately analyze emotion. In doing this, emotion will cease to master his thinking.

    Peace isn't a term of absolute precision; one is not able to algorithmically model himself against someone else to find it.

    Peace is then an application of relativity - what makes me happy? What must I do to feel psychological serenity?



    If dispassionate critique is what you consider the most viable route towards self-enlightenment, I'd encourage you to follow it to satisfaction.

    Expecting others to silhouette your pattern of behavior is an unrealistic basis from which to develop your sense of well-being.

  4. #4
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Why do we presume that Aristotle achieved this "ideal" state of happiness? Or that he necessarily found inner peace?

    Vision and tranquility are incidental terms. Neither presupposes the other.
    Happiness isn't a theoretical framework. Its anatomy is intimate to the user and is not a term we can objectively consider.

    As a rose to one, a thorn to another...



    Dispassion? Emotional moderation and dispassion are entirely different systems.

    Dispassion is clinical. It focuses on the empirical chips available with one's substrate. Dispassionate evaluation is an appropriate technique when one wants to diagnose and diagram for later utility.

    Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language and as a lifestyle.



    You conclusion is problematically linear.

    If man wants peace, he will dispassionately analyze emotion. In doing this, emotion will cease to master his thinking.

    Peace isn't a term of absolute precision; one is not able to algorithmically model himself against someone else to find it.

    Peace is then an application of relativity - what makes me happy? What must I do to feel psychological serenity?



    If dispassionate critique is what you consider the most viable route towards self-enlightenment, I'd encourage you to follow it to satisfaction.

    Expecting others to silhouette your pattern of behavior is an unrealistic basis from which to develop your sense of well-being.
    Vision and tranquility are related, not incidental.
    In order for you to have a vision, you must retire to your imagination which requires contemplation. Tranquility is best achieved in an obviously calm and contemplative environment as we are less interfered with there.

    I am using the term peace in a very colloquial fashion. A simple lack of disturbance, a feeling of calm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language [I]and as a lifestyle. .
    I do not insinuate to do away with all emotion, but merely keep it on low content. If we devote our lives to dispassionate analysis, we will never become emotionless, but our emotions shall be subordinate to our thinking rather than vice versa. Our passions that we do not understand will not be calling the shots in how we are to live our lives, but by contrast, we will be able to elect exactly how we are to proceed.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post


    (I'm the pink "feeler" and you are the green "thinker")
    You'll crack him somehow, won'tcha
    intp | type 9w1 sp/sx/so

  6. #6
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    After having argued about this with a certain T-F pairing, apparently not all people want for moderate excitement for long term happiness. Some, it seems, would rather have their socks knocked off once in a while than consistently have a smirk upon their lips.

    I can see that as being quite logical. Imagine that you lived in the arctic, a warm day like those found on a beach somewhere closer to the equator would feel lovely and warm. However after a while you would adjust to it and any decrease in that would feel cold yet still be warmer than what you had before. Ergo if you attempt to be satisfied with life then surely the aim is not to be consistently mildly happy but more to attempt to reduce the fall in happiness where possible to a minimum and hence, effectively, raise the average happiness level to one which gives satisfaction and contenment in the larger overview.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #7
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    You'll crack him somehow, won'tcha
    With her iron thighs.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  8. #8
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I prefer a mostly tranquil life, myself, but I've come to understand that not everyone wants to live that way. For the folks who need more of a rush, living a life like the one I enjoy would be a slow painful death. The important thing for me to realize is that steering them towards a life that reflects my ideal is a waste of my time and a disservice to the person I'm doing it to. I have to keep reminding myself of that because, though I'm trying to accept it, it's impossible for me to get my head around wanting to live that way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

    Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

    Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

    Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

    This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

    This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.
    Not being aware of one's happiness (and thus, not even being "happy") is, paradoxically, an even greater state of bliss, as the ego has retreated to its quarters, and the body, spirit, whathaveyou is free to take in the pleasures life offers in abundance without the taxing over-the-shoulder analysations of the restless mind.

    This control of which you speak is less of a "control" than a detachment. A detachment from an identity.. One should never deny the existence (or experience) of one's passions, emotions, etc.. but rather, come to the realisation that the strain accompanied by such emotions is merely a consequence of identifying with one's ego so absolutely, as if your identity were truly you.. when it is actually a product of the Mind.

    Do not seek emotional equilibrium! No! That would be to suppress; suppression goes against nature, and nature always wins. No.. seek to always understand that your emotions are the product of a Mind.. an Identity... an Ego... and then! Then your sadness, your happiness, your every state.. is not truly yours. It's all the doing of your mind. You do not have to be so thoroughly invested in it.

    And so.. always be an observer of your emotions, your reactions.. Do not seek to interfere! For the acknowledgement of them being simply the consequence of an emotional climate, which is ever-changing, is enough! That is enough. Intellectual detachment, not forceful denial of the emotions.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    I view happiness as fitting into one of two categories: superficial happiness and deep happiness. Superficial happiness is the temporary pleasure we experience from things like eating a favorite food, reading something funny, watching a movie and buying something nice for yourself.

    Deep happiness is found by following your hearts desire. I have also heard this reffered to as "following your bliss" and "true happiness" and "your calling." It is about what gives our life not just pleasure but a sense of purpose, completeness, satisfaction. It is not hedonistic and it is not fleeting. Some find it in intellectional pursuits. Some find it in music or art or crafts. Some find it in religion or spirituality. Some find it in physcial activity. The possiblities are endless.

    I believe it is deep happiness that BlueWing is referring to. That is one path and it leads to deep happiness for some, but it is not the path for everyone.

    I imagine there is some type difference in what people find deep happiness in. I have read that introverts tend to prefer harmony and inner peace where extroverts tend to prefer excitiment and adrenaline.

    Ilah

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