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  1. #41
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I don't think you really appreciate what dispassionate contemplation is if you say things like "nothing is more counter productive than losing control." Your struggle to gain control is just another one of the feelings you seek to uproot, in this case, your aversion to emotions and that suffering they cause. There's a saying in Zen that the best way to control a herd is a build a big fence. Trying to control your feelings is not how you overcome them; that's not "dispassionate" at all, it's complete immersion.

    I agree there is no way to entirely control them, but you can come as close as you possibly can to doing so by being dispassionate. If you let yourself experience them to the full, you shall be consumed by your passions. Inevitably, you must allow yourself to experience them to some degree, but only to the mere minimum.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #42
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Good luck with that.

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    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  3. #43
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I agree there is no way to entirely control them, but you can come as close as you possibly can to doing so by being dispassionate. If you let yourself experience them to the full, you shall be consumed by your passions. Inevitably, you must allow yourself to experience them to some degree, but only to the mere minimum.
    Yeah. Here's my deal. You are a notorious intellectualizer. You analyze the shit out of your feelings, trying to make sense of them. There's a chance that you really overcome them or control them, as you put it. But then there's a chance that all you're doing is trying to flee them and end up repressing them. To that degree, you remind me of me when I was your age.

    In my experience, the only way to get rid of a feeling is by NOT TRYING TO GET RID OF IT. What I mean is, by sitting with where ever you are, psychologically. If you're angry, you allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling, and yes, observe it (dispassionately).

    But I don't get the sense that that's what you're doing. You might be using all the correct key terms, but now and then, you slip up and reveal what's really going on, which is an agenda to avoid feelings because you somehow see them as inferior to intellection in your personal hierarchy of values. (Something I used to do too.) "Mere minimum" and "control" are two examples. The other evidence comes from what I know about you based on your posts and approach to feelings (and feelers). If what you're seeking is avoidance, then you haven't come to a place where you can really analyze dispassionately, without motive. You have to stop weighing and categorizing all these experiences and just take them for what they are. Feelings are feelings, intellection is intellection. As they say in Zen, "sky is blue, grass is green, chili peppers are spicy, how may I help you?"

  4. #44
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    Extroverts will often tell introverts that they have a problem because they don't act like extroverts. Extroverts will insist that introverts cannot possibly have a happy and fullfilling life.

    This is the same thing except anti-extrovert instead of anti-introvert.

  5. #45
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    So your argument is that if something is difficult, it is best not to do it?

    Plus, that still doesn't explain how prolonged excitement produces emotional instability. Maybe prolonged excitement just produces a desire for more sleep?

    Psychological research might have something to say about these speculations.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The point was to maintain consistency. Running a marathon at 3 miles an hour, you'll finish faster than at 6 miles an hour.
    I see. So you're no longer arguing for avoiding "emotional instability," but rather "consistency." I guess that implies consistency is a virtue. I think many would disagree with that, especially perceiver types.

    Apparently you're not a runner. Top marathon runners run at paces as fast as 4:45 per mile. That's extremely fast, and obviously with a significant consistency to maintain that pace. I wouldn't be able to do that, but there are people who can maintain a consistently fast pace. Your marathon pace analogy actually refutes your own argument.

  6. #46
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I see. So you're no longer arguing for avoiding "emotional instability," but rather "consistency." I guess that implies consistency is a virtue. I think many would disagree with that, especially perceiver types..
    Review my exchange with cafe and Ivy on this matter please.

    Consistency should lead to emotional stability as a consistent lifestyle obviously tends to entail consistent emotions. The definition of emotional stability is consistency of passions.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #47
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Regarding your earlier comment that ESPs simply have more energy and can run faster than you. This would be adequate if they were able to maintain a consistent lifestyle at such a high speed. They can run faster than you, but not that much faster, as it seems clear to almost all observers that ESPs tend be mercurial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    You've basically just defined introversion vs. extroversion, and extrapolated from it that an extrovert's main problem is that he isn't an introvert.
    I did not say that there is something wrong with the Extrovert altogether. Only that we all (them included) have an inner being to take care of. This means tending to our introverted needs. Does not mean that the Extrovert's life needs to be dominated by them, but only that they need to devote more attention to it than the Extroverts cafe we were discussing. (Those who seem to think they can play their way through life without hardly setting a moment for reflection.)
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #48
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Yeah. Here's my deal. You are a notorious intellectualizer. You analyze the shit out of your feelings, trying to make sense of them. There's a chance that you really overcome them or control them, as you put it. But then there's a chance that all you're doing is trying to flee them and end up repressing them. To that degree, you remind me of me when I was your age.

    In my experience, the only way to get rid of a feeling is by NOT TRYING TO GET RID OF IT. What I mean is, by sitting with where ever you are, psychologically. If you're angry, you allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling, and yes, observe it (dispassionately).

    But I don't get the sense that that's what you're doing. You might be using all the correct key terms, but now and then, you slip up and reveal what's really going on, which is an agenda to avoid feelings because you somehow see them as inferior to intellection in your personal hierarchy of values. (Something I used to do too.) "Mere minimum" and "control" are two examples. The other evidence comes from what I know about you based on your posts and approach to feelings (and feelers). If what you're seeking is avoidance, then you haven't come to a place where you can really analyze dispassionately, without motive. You have to stop weighing and categorizing all these experiences and just take them for what they are. Feelings are feelings, intellection is intellection. As they say in Zen, "sky is blue, grass is green, chili peppers are spicy, how may I help you?"
    What kind of shit is that? Is this thread about what is a good life and mans relation to society or about what Bluewing does?

    To counter your earlier claim, we always unconsciously process emotion. We all do this. If you detach and get away into the world of abstract ideas, sooner or later you will have processed your feelings. Most NTPs dont truly know how to detach and get away into the world of contemplation far enough to avoid conscious scrutiny of passions. They are neither here (in emotions) or there (in contemplation) and are forced to deal with the raging passions they have no notion of how to deal with.

    It would be wise, however, I submit, to learn how to process them consciously, this shall speed up the process and shall spare you the discomfort of dealing with unpleasant feelings in the background.

    Noone is able to get away from emotions, only some of us are able to properly place them in the background, where they belong, and not the fore.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #49
    Senior Member Ilah's Avatar
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    Since you feel extroverts have to tend to their introvert needs, do you also feel like introverts need to tend to their extrovert needs as well?

    Ilah

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Regarding your earlier comment that ESPs simply have more energy and can run faster than you. This would be adequate if they were able to maintain a consistent lifestyle at such a high speed. They can run faster than you, but not that much faster, as it seems clear to almost all observers that ESPs tend be mercurial.



    I did not say that there is something wrong with the Extrovert altogether. Only that we all (them included) have an inner being to take care of. This means tending to our introverted needs. Does not mean that the Extrovert's life needs to be dominated by them, but only that they need to devote more attention to it than the Extroverts cafe we were discussing. (Those who seem to think they can play their way through life without hardly setting a moment for reflection.)

  10. #50
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    What kind of shit is that? Is this thread about what is a good life and mans relation to society or about what Bluewing does?
    These issues are connected.

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