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True and False

Alea_iacta_est

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Is it safer to assume that all things are true until proven untrue, or is it safer to assume that all things are false until proven true?
Or are neither safer and they are merely a reiteration of the glass half full/glass half empty perception?
 

ygolo

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I think the safety of the decision comes from how that statement will be applied.

Assumptions, whether they are assuming something is true or assuming something is false, ought to be tested before relying upon them for something important.

My preference would be not to assume either, if possible. Unfortunately, we aren't blank slates. We will all have biases and assumptions, and it is probably better to have them stated explicitly and then tested, than hidden and untested.
 

Anna Jorovic

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What do you mean by "safe" and "proof"? Generally, I'd say don't assume anything until you've collected as much information as you can about the thing in question.
 

RaptorWizard

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What do you mean by "safe" and "proof"? Generally, I'd say don't assume anything until you've collected as much information as you can about the thing in question.

The whole idea behind archiving massive amounts of information in large part to analyze whether or not something is "real" or 'true" to me seems somewhat empty of personal meaning and significance.
 

Qlip

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Haha, just like a Judger. ;) There is a such thing as yet-to-be-determined.
 

Anna Jorovic

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The whole idea behind archiving massive amounts of information in large part to analyze whether or not something is "real" or 'true" to me seems somewhat empty of personal meaning and significance.

What does "personal meaning and significance" have to do with it?

PS: Don't become a scientist. :)
 

zago

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False until proven true.

I've spent my adult life trying to undo all the crap that I was conditioned by society to believe was true. The problem is our inherent need to grab hold of something. If we didn't, it would feel like we might as well know nothing at all sometimes.
 

RaptorWizard

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What does "personal meaning and significance" have to do with it?

PS: Don't become a scientist. :)

Much of our greatest innovation and fantastic productions have come from the boundless imagination, wit what's important to us and gives life a whole new magical twist! And I also believe that the truth can be used for gathering "building blocks" for the grand fictional schemes!
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I think I may have been too general about this,

Is it better to not trust new information entirely solely based on the fact that it is new and unexplored or is it better to readily accept new information and augment the entire concept to incorporate the new information, then exploring the new information later?
 

Anna Jorovic

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Much of our greatest innovation and fantastic productions have come from the boundless imagination, wit what's important to us and gives life a whole new magical twist! And I also believe that the truth can be used for gathering "building blocks" for the grand fictional schemes!

I agree that the imagination is important - it's especially useful for sparking your curiosity and making you wonder what could be (or even about impossible things, which is fun). I'm a fantasy and sci-fi novelist (not professional, but I've written books haha), so I certainly have nothing against boundless imagination.

But the imagination needs external information to work, and if its ideas are to be taken as truth (if anything can) they need to be tested if possible.
 

Anna Jorovic

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I think I may have been too general about this,

Is it better to not trust new information entirely solely based on the fact that it is new and unexplored or is it better to readily accept new information and augment the entire concept to incorporate the new information, then exploring the new information later?

I don't think all information is equal. The quality of the information is what matters to me, not the age.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I don't think all information is equal. The quality of the information is what matters to me, not the age.

Indeed, but newer information when it is conceived usually has less quality than when it is fully explored. Ergo, should newer information be incorporated into the framework when it has aged enough to gain greater quality due to more substantial evidence and theoretical exploration, or should we assimilate the new information into the framework and mold the framework based on how the new information evolves?

Essentially this question asks, should we wait before assuming that this information is entirely credible, or should we accept all new information that applies to the framework?

This is sort of modeled after the faster-than-light neutrino experiment a while back. They found from their data that neutrinos were travelling faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, but it was later discovered that the data wasn't entirely accurate and the neutrinos were actually travelling a hair slower than the speed of light. Before the err was announced however, many physicists had already begun to build models to incorporate how these neutrinos would have been able to accomplish this feat.
 

Anna Jorovic

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Indeed, but newer information when it is conceived usually has less quality than when it is fully explored. Ergo, should newer information be incorporated into the framework when it has aged enough to gain greater quality due to more substantial evidence and theoretical exploration, or should we assimilate the new information into the framework and mold the framework based on how the new information evolves?

Essentially this question asks, should we wait before assuming that this information is entirely credible, or should we accept all new information that applies to the framework?

This is sort of modeled after the faster-than-light neutrino experiment a while back. They found from their data that neutrinos were travelling faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, but it was later discovered that the data wasn't entirely accurate and the neutrinos were actually travelling a hair slower than the speed of light. Before the err was announced however, many physicists had already begun to build models to incorporate how these neutrinos would have been able to accomplish this feat.

Haha this is going to sound horribly geeky, but I tried to invent a mathematical model myself to explain the experiment but it didn't work haha. Either because I was really clever or really dumb. :D

I never fully accept any information. I'm not sure we can ever KNOW anything for sure, and I look for probable truths rather than certainties. So I'd be on the wait and see side of the scale. :)
 

Anna Jorovic

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Indeed, but newer information when it is conceived usually has less quality than when it is fully explored. Ergo, should newer information be incorporated into the framework when it has aged enough to gain greater quality due to more substantial evidence and theoretical exploration, or should we assimilate the new information into the framework and mold the framework based on how the new information evolves?

Essentially this question asks, should we wait before assuming that this information is entirely credible, or should we accept all new information that applies to the framework?

This is sort of modeled after the faster-than-light neutrino experiment a while back. They found from their data that neutrinos were travelling faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, but it was later discovered that the data wasn't entirely accurate and the neutrinos were actually travelling a hair slower than the speed of light. Before the err was announced however, many physicists had already begun to build models to incorporate how these neutrinos would have been able to accomplish this feat.

Dumb double post.
 

RaptorWizard

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I agree that the imagination is important - it's especially useful for sparking your curiosity and making you wonder what could be (or even about impossible things, which is fun). I'm a fantasy and sci-fi novelist (not professional, but I've written books haha), so I certainly have nothing against boundless imagination.

But the imagination needs external information to work, and if its ideas are to be taken as truth (if anything can) they need to be tested if possible.

That's completely awesome! But you're probably much like another user named [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], where she doesn't make her work known on the forum for fear of exposure, so I can't see it probably... :(

But you can at least see Ene's epic existential thoughts in this thread: Welcome to the E-NiVerse: A Different Kind of Reality
 

Anna Jorovic

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That's completely awesome! But you're probably much like another user named [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], where she doesn't make her work known on the forum for fear of exposure, so I can't see it probably... :(

But you can at least see Ene's epic existential thoughts in this thread: Welcome to the E-NiVerse: A Different Kind of Reality

I've had a few short stories and articles published in magazines. If I post anything on here I won't be able to sell the rights to it, as this effectively counts as online publication. And I need the cash lol! :D
 

RaptorWizard

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Nikola Tesla invented stuff and never got money, so I intend to be the same way! :unicorn:
 
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