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  1. #21
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    You both have said that the mind simply leaves the body and disappears, but where does it go from there? It simply can't disappear from existence.
    I am saying the mind (really your thoughts at any given instant in time) are just a byproduct of the electro chemical impulses generated in your brain. So when you die, these impulses cease to be generated.

    There is no violation of matter/energy laws. Your brain stops consuming energy, and your thoughts stop being generated. So what you call your mind, does in fact, disappear.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I am saying the mind (really your thoughts at any given instant in time) are just a byproduct of the electro chemical impulses generated in your brain. So when you die, these impulses cease to be generated.

    There is no violation of matter/energy laws. Your brain stops consuming energy, and your thoughts stop being generated. So what you call your mind, does in fact, disappear.
    Alright, I think I've hit a language barrier in my explanation; the consciousness is a personal entity that conforms to a persons genetics as is/does the mind. However, my idea is meant to illustrate what we experience after death, which I don't think I covered fully and with detail. Naturally, we wouldn't experience anything, for we would be dysfunctional and dormant, and when the brain finally disintegrates, nonexistent. We leave thought, memory, consciousness (ourselves and our being) behind to join the black abyss, to simply not be any longer and to simply not function any longer; therefore, we are no longer we, we are nonexistent. The recurring theme of my post is that from nonexistence springs existence, based on the concept that when people are conceived, they begin to experience when just moments before they didn't experience. In short, when we become dysfunctional and die off, mind, consciousness, and all, what happens next? The cycle continues, for without experience, then the universe might as well not exist in the first place, nor existence for that matter.

  3. #23
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Those who discover their past lives discover exciting, powerful and glamourous past lives. This is all of a piece of the meretricious New Age.

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Thank you.

    The reason why I am forced to go with that particular idea for consciousness is that when someone dies in a godless universe, they would be theoretically cast into nonexistence, which as evidenced by my speculation, doesn't exist (how ironic). So how can something that is no longer functioning such as thought exist but not exist at the same time? The only explanations would either be that perhaps the consciousness unique to a body jumps backwards in time and relives the same life with the same body perpetually, or that the consciousness is transported to a different body. For personal preference, I picked the latter of the two (living the same life over and over again seems so dull).

    Again, this is all speculation.
    A nice thread. A side point.

    Conscient = seeing; therefore knowing.

    Con = with

    Scient = stem of pres. pt. of scire, to know; originally, to see.

    Scientia, knowledge
    Science

    Conscience, con + science

    Conscious, conscius, aware

    con + scire, conscire, to be aware

    CONSCIOUS

    Seeing
    Knowing
    Sentient
    Percipient
    Intelligent

    Thinking
    Intellectual
    Reflecting
    Rational
    Reasoning

    Sensible
    Aware
    Awake
    Cognizant
    Apprised
    Percipient

    Inwardly known
    Clearly felt
    Self-admitted
    Self-accusing

  5. #25
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The recurring theme of my post is that from nonexistence springs existence, based on the concept that when people are conceived, they begin to experience when just moments before they didn't experience. In short, when we become dysfunctional and die off, mind, consciousness, and all, what happens next? The cycle continues, for without experience, then the universe might as well not exist in the first place, nor existence for that matter.
    The biological cycle continues, but I don't see anything profound about it. There is no evidence to believe there is any connection between one consciousness and a subsequent one (although I think you are speculating about such, which is fine, no harm in a little unsubstantiated speculation).

    To your point about experience vs universe, I'm pretty sure the universe is indifferent as to whether any consiousnesses experience it or not, although as it turns out, I'm happy to experience it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    So, I've been introspecting about this for several years now, and I thought that I might be able to share my insights here.

    This concept will be hard to grasp for those that look at it from the standpoint of any form of religion; to fully understand this concept, one must view the universe from the non-theist standpoint, as a chaotic, yet mathematically organized, computer (in a metaphorical rather than literal sense).

    To begin, I'm going to ask you what you recall before you were born. The obvious answer to this question is that you recall absolutely nothing, which actually provides more insight than one might think. Before we were born, we, the consciousness that occupies our vessel, simply weren't there. We didn't exist before we were born, but then we existed, a testament to a very antiquated paradox. How does something come from nothing? Something isn't made of nothing, because it would still be nothing, so how is this possible? The very fact that you are sitting here reading this very post definitely states that your consciousness, indeed, came from nothing and then became something, so what else has come from nothing? One may conclude that all of existence has simply arisen out of this abyss we call "nonexistence". Well, as it so happens, nonexistence doesn't exist, nor does it not exist, and the very fact that we are here illustrates this concept. If we exist, then that means that things that aren't here now have the possibility to exist (as evidence to the fact that we had the possibility to exist and then we existed). But, nothing can't have potential, for if nothing has potential, it adopts a property of something; therefore, anything that has potential exists, and anything that doesn't have potential or properties doesn't exist. But, as we just mentioned, we came out of nonexistence; we had potential, so anything else that could possibly exist must indeed exist along with us. If nothing has the possibility to exist, then nothing, quite paradoxically, isn't nothing. This means that nonexistence must not be nonexistence, for everything in nonexistence has the potential to exist.

    Now for the crazy part:
    Using this knowledge that nonexistence is impossible, we can confront the common atheistic viewpoint concerning what happens after death. Most atheists tend to believe that when we die, we fall into the oblivion that constitutes nonexistence, i.e. when we die, we no longer exist, and we cease to be, and that's the end of that. But, as we've learned, nonexistence is impossible, so how can one rejoin the nonexistence from whence it didn't come? That's simple, one doesn't. But what happens to us then? The only possible explanation for what happens actually lies from how we began to exist in the first place, when we die, we become nonexistent, and then instantaneously existent, for nonexistence is utterly unstable because it simply can't be. When we become instantaneously existent, we are recycled to a new vessel, as proven by the fact that our consciousness came from "nothing". But if our consciousness ceased to be, then how are we recycled? The only possible explanation is that consciousness isn't the property of the individual, but the property of the entire collective. Anything that experiences is conscious; therefore, it possesses the consciousness. When a vessel is damaged to the point where consciousness has no possible route to experience any longer, it simply takes root into a different vessel, one that is being born. But, if this is true, then how come some babies aren't born without consciousness? Now we begin to trail down the path of the singularity. The instantaneous transition that transports us from vessel to vessel is free of certain laws of existence, because technically, during that precise, infinitesimally small amount of time, we aren't apart of existence anymore, and what important concept is a property of existence? Time. Therefore, when we enter nonexistence, we no longer abide by the same rules of existence, including time. When we transition from vessel to vessel, we could be placed in a vessel 3 trillion years from now or even 13.7 billion years ago. That means, when we die, our consciousness possesses another, randomly chosen vessel, which then goes on to live a life, die, and in turn be re-purposed into a different vessel (or perhaps even the same vessel over again a few times), a process that continues indefinitely until every life-form has been lived an infinite amount of times.

    With these inferences, we can make several conclusions: One, that every act of kindness or belligerence we ultimately do to ourselves, for we are doomed to live the receiver of said kindness or belligerence eventually. Two, that consciousness is one unified being, that lives every life individually and anachronistically. and Three, that life and death are ultimately a cycle or beginning, ending, and beginning once more.

    I would love to hear your interpretations on my insane ramblings that I have posted on this thread, so please tell me anything you notice or any logical inconsistency or fallacy in my writing.
    I've skimmed through it, and the whole thing is a swamp of illogical nonsense, as far as I can make out. Did you write this as a joke?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Fusion View Post
    I've skimmed through it, and the whole thing is a swamp of illogical nonsense, as far as I can make out. Did you write this as a joke?
    That's good ole' Ti/Ni at work. Skimming this will only lead to misunderstanding. Oh and for the illogical comment, welcome to philosophy/spirituality.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    That's good ole' Ti/Ni at work. Skimming this will only lead to misunderstanding. Oh and for the illogical comment, welcome to philosophy/spirituality.
    I don't see any reasons why philosophy or spirituality can't be logical.

    It isn't particularly that I object to the idea of reincarnation (I don't see any reason at all to believe in it, but I'm open to the possibility), rather to your style of "reasoning". You seem perfectly happy to assert things as facts without anything to back them up, and you make seemingly random intuitive leaps to specific landing points when there are many other ledges in the area that are equally good. It's just very ugly thinking, to me.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Fusion View Post
    I don't see any reasons why philosophy or spirituality can't be logical.

    It isn't particularly that I object to the idea of reincarnation (I don't see any reason at all to believe in it, but I'm open to the possibility), rather to your style of "reasoning". You seem perfectly happy to assert things as facts without anything to back them up, and you make seemingly random intuitive leaps to specific landing points when there are many other ledges in the area that are equally good. It's just very ugly thinking, to me.
    Thanks for the input. When I think about spirituality or especially life after death I like to formulate an ideal scenario first before providing more ambiguous, reasonable answers. This was actually my first iteration and possible sequence of my concept (est. 5 years ago), for I was reluctant that my more fine-tuned scenario would be highly subjective due to the extended amount of time it has been twisted and manipulated logically in my head.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Thanks for the input. When I think about spirituality or especially life after death I like to formulate an ideal scenario first before providing more ambiguous, reasonable answers. This was actually my first iteration and possible sequence of my concept (est. 5 years ago), for I was reluctant that my more fine-tuned scenario would be highly subjective due to the extended amount of time it has been twisted and manipulated logically in my head.
    Haha that's weird. I tend to get more and more confident about my conclusions the longer I think about them. Extra thinking time equals extra "objectivity" in my brain, because I tend to flush out all the subjective stuff as soon as I find it.

    Is that a Ti/Ni difference? I'd NEVER think of an "ideal scenario" first when asking philosophical questions lol!

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