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  1. #11
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Tradition gives society a sense of purpose. Religion gives society a sense of purpose. Politics frees society from the burden of governing itself so the people can be free to enjoy their sense of purpose.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    @Polly, I feel like typically the people you are talking about express anger towards you because you represent a threat to their way of being or belief. People are much more willing to be accepting of things once it becomes clear that your position is not meant as a personal slight towards the way they choose to live. Of course it is not your responsibility to change your opinions to be more tasteful to others, but you are in control of how you choose to present them, and may benefit from adjusting accordingly.

    As @kyuuei already explained well, your OP comes off as intolerant towards others as you are accusing them of being. I am sure that was not your intention, but it is a pertinent observation. People who eat meat or believe in the Bible have as much right to their own opinions as you do, and in an ideal world would be equally free from judgment about their intelligence or moral fiber based on those opinions alone. It does not sound like you respect believers' faith in the Bible any more than the people you are talking about respect your belief in atheism/agnosticism. It must work in both directions. Incidentally, you will find that most people have views that deviate from mainstream - mainstream is average but not normal, if that makes sense. If there is a "safe space" established where people feel safe to share their idiosyncracies, most people will admit to deviation. A conservative family friend and I were talking about cohabitation at one point and she admitted to having cohabited once herself, though nominally against it. It is surprising how alike people are when things are framed in the right way.

    Of course it is not fair of anyone to mistreat you, though, either. If someone yells at you for your choices, excuse yourself from the situation. There is no reason you need to endure abuse. Despite the complexity of the world, humans still appear to learn primarily by observation and imitation. Be an example of the sort of treatment you would like to receive, and hope that others may learn from your wisdom and dignity.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    These people that you refer to are known as SJ E1's.
    This is not a true generalization. If any enneatype I would expect it more of 6s. A 1 might preach to the choir but is typically tightly controlled and probably far less likely to regurgitate their opinions on a stranger than a threatened 6. As for SJ and traditionalism, a can of worms. Suffice it to say that I do not detect any greater proclivity towards closed-mindedness in the SJs I know than any other type. If anything, SJs are typically quite open to substantial factual evidence for the benefits of making change, while others may require more esoteric methods to convince.

  3. #13
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Yes, you're right....being a vegetarian is not a social norm. But so far I only met people who tell me how weird and unnatural it is to be a vegetarian.
    It is unnatural. But so is monogamy for humans, and we still do that. You'll get people who will attack anything. But vegetarians are not THAT uncommon either. There's departments, menus, and sections dedicated to them. Vegan is a little harder to accommodate, but I think vegetarianism is really common. NOT normal, or in the majority, but common. Some people are vegetarian for the sake of healthy eating, so I think if it isn't popular where you're at it very well could be soon.

    Why the hell they won't let me to believe in science, but instead they try to feed me with sayings from bible?
    Well.. Honestly, they kind of ARE letting you believe in science. No one is saying you can't. You're always going to have disagreements. But... Honestly, someone along the way told you about science, and it's findings, and that's how you learned about it and got interested. Can you not see that people try to spark that same kind of interest in a similar fashion? There are all kinds of stories where someone just talking about God inspired someone to convert. You never know what people will grab a hold of and pay attention to..
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It is unnatural.


    Everything is unnatural though isn't it? I remember thinking to myself what of my behaviours weren't second nature. Even going to the toilet was second nature.

    It is all a choice.

    People hold onto things because it gives them structure. Everybody does that. Humans are funny.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!!
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #16
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    what's the most common scenario you're bringing this up? if it's just to tell them it's annoying but if they're like want a steak and are than are like I'm vegetarian then that's understandable. it's all about how you present your beliefs

  7. #17
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!!
    I will try to accommodate dietary needs and wishes but I refuse to get pent up about it. If it were me and I had a specific diet I adhered to, I would bring my own food. I would never expect others to make adjustments for my choices or needs.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #18
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I will try to accommodate dietary needs and wishes but I refuse to get pent up about it. If it were me and I had a specific diet I adhered to, I would bring my own food. I would never expect others to make adjustments for my choices or needs.
    Both of these kids would just sit there and politely starve. They are both painfully thin and have difficult home lives and have been friends with my kids for 7 and 10 years respectively. I'd really just rather stab myself with a fork than upset the boy, especially.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #19
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!!
    What you don't know can't hurt you... kidding

    I wouldn't worry much about the kids. I was a vegetarian for a while and a vegan briefly; one gets quite good at reading labels and anticipating certain ingredients. One also gets good at waiting to eat or scrounging up food elsewhere. It is just a facet of vegetarian/vegan life that sometimes you have to guess and sometimes you have to wait. Far from being offended, I'm sure they're appreciative that you try to be accommodating.

    As for horrifying them, ain't nothing that compares to the smell of a just-opened package of tofu noodles.

  10. #20

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    I find it hilarious that the OP is railing against closed-mindedness after that rant.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
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