Atheists celebrating Christmas.

[Blackmail!]

If I'm remembering correctly, Tacitus is the only one who mentions "Christ". Here's a page on the problems people have with it being 'proof' Jesus existed (even just as a man).

This so-called Tacitus letter is a crude fake written by Poggio Bracciolini during the XVIth century. Too many references are incorrect (Pilatus was a praefect, and not a procurator). Even the Vatican officially acknowledges that this part of Tacite's manuscript is "odd" and probably of dubious origins.

Once again, it's not "nit-picking", it's just denouncing a pious fraud.

Plus the site you quote is written and designed by a Christian apologist who seems to be on a personal crusade against Atheism. Not the most neutral source If I may say...

What's next?

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, I didn't think the derail would take long...

 

[Z Buck McFate]

it is entirely possible to navigate the season without anyone bringing religion into it where I live.

Yep. I had no idea it was a religious holiday to other people until I was older- because none of my friends' families were religious either.

Plus the site you quote is written and designed by a Christian apologist who seems to be on a personal crusade against Atheism. Not the most neutral source If I may say...

I had just googled "Tacitus" to see if I had the name right. I have no stakes one way or the other, whether Jesus really is the son of God or not- all I know is that I've read through a bit of ancient Roman historian text, and that bit stood out to me when I did. I don't think I've ever heard this accusation about Tacitus's account being fake before- though I linked one of the first pages that came up with my search (so I can't speak to that person's credibility), the excerpt from Tacitus is the same one I've read before. You might want to link some credible sources if you expect anyone to believe Tacitus' account of history is fake.

 

[kyuuei]

I still don't get it guys.

It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Jesus was even born in December.

Christians jumped on the bandwagon of fun stuff long before it was ever called Christmas. When cultures mesh together, good or bad, they both bring away stuff from the other. Christianity dominated and marched onward--but Paganism left its mark on it in a quiet way. All the 'fun' stuff is Pagan in nature. That's why JW's and stuff don't really like it.

 

[AzulEyes]

If it makes you feel better, I don't think Jesus was even born in December.

Christians jumped on the bandwagon of fun stuff long before it was ever called Christmas. When cultures mesh together, good or bad, they both bring away stuff from the other. Christianity dominated and marched onward--but Paganism left its mark on it in a quiet way. All the 'fun' stuff is Pagan in nature. That's why JW's and stuff don't really like it.

I don't think he was born in December either.

 

[Blackmail!]

Yep. I had no idea it was a religious holiday to other people until I was older- because none of my friends' families were religious either.



I had just googled "Tacitus" to see if I had the name right. I have no stakes one way or the other, whether Jesus really is the son of God or not- all I know is that I've read through a bit of ancient Roman historian text, and that bit stood out to me when I did. I don't think I've ever heard this accusation about Tacitus's account being fake before- though I linked one of the first pages that came up with my search (so I can't speak to that person's credibility), the excerpt from Tacitus is the same one I've read before. You might want to link some credible sources if you expect anyone to believe Tacitus' account of history is fake.

I already gave you a few hints.

First, in Tacitus letter, we have the word "Christians". But this word didn't exist at his time. And the official Roman records shows that emperor Nero didn't blame "Christians" but "Jews" for the burning of Rome.
Secondly, no historian (even Christian historians) refered to this excerpt of Tacitus before the Vth century. And it was first quoted only during the Renaissance. It is extremely odd, not to say impossible.
Thirdly, even the Vatican officially admits that this letter must be taken "with a pinch of salt". Only protestant theologians staunchly defend the authenticity of this letter: just check Wikipedia, their insistance to defend what can't be defended is quite ridiculous. Who is wikipedia quoting when it claims that the letter is authentic? Their first references are Robert E. Van Voorst (a conservative theologian), Greg Boyd (a "born-again" pastor), Andreas Köstenberger (an Evangelical pastor)... and so on, and so on.

Just check your sources in detail, this crude manipulation is appalling.

Why do you think that wikipedia seems totally unable to quote any real independant historian or genuine scientific works?

 

[Blackmail!]

I don't think he was born in December either.

"He" wasn't born at all. Just check Nazareth for instance: this town didn't exist in the first century. So the gospels claims that Yehoshua was born in a town that didn't exist yet: don't you see how absurd this claim is?

On the other hand, the fact that there wasn't a town called Nazareth before the middle of the second century (not before 135 AD) is well established, both by historians and archaelogists. The area that would be known later as "Nazareth" was not even inhabited during the times of emperor Tiberius.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

"He" wasn't born at all. Just check Nazareth for instance: this town didn't exist in the first century. So the gospels claims that Yehoshua was born in a town that didn't exist yet: don't you see how absurd this claim is?

On the other hand, the fact that there wasn't a town called Nazareth before the middle of the second century (not before 135 AD) is well established, both by historians and archaelogists. The area that would be known later as "Nazareth" was not even inhabited during the times of emperor Tiberius.

When I wikied it, I found nothing that supports that Nazareth did not exist. I found that Bethlehem has BC archaeological foundations too.

 

[Blackmail!]

When I wikied it, I found nothing that supports that Nazareth did not exist. I found that Bethlehem has BC archaeological foundations too.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz1article.html

Or

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html

----

But of course, if you have faith, it means that you will discard reason whatever we say, whatever evidence we provide... It doesn't matter, I forgive you.

 

[Forever]

My views:

Does it matter? No.

Let people celebrate the way the want to celebrate it? Sure.

I'm not a fan of setting up all the lights but I still think it's pretty to look on to some people's homes?

It's a day that was originally pagan traditions and is debated when is Jesus Christ's true birthday was.

I still think it's nice to have a day set up for him, regardless if it's spot on, is his birthday or not.

 

[AzulEyes]

"He" wasn't born at all. Just check Nazareth for instance: this town didn't exist in the first century. So the gospels claims that Yehoshua was born in a town that didn't exist yet: don't you see how absurd this claim is?

On the other hand, the fact that there wasn't a town called Nazareth before the middle of the second century (not before 135 AD) is well established, both by historians and archaelogists. The area that would be known later as "Nazareth" was not even inhabited during the times of emperor Tiberius.

He was totally born.

 

[ceecee]

I always thought the Roman Sol Invictus festival was on or near December 25th and Constantine took that date and ran with it. Excuse me, it was decided at the Council of Nicea that they'd take that date and run with it.

 

[chubber]

My views:

Does it matter? No.

Let people celebrate the way the want to celebrate it? Sure.

I'm not a fan of setting up all the lights but I still think it's pretty to look on to some people's homes?

It's a day that was originally pagan traditions and is debated when is Jesus Christ's true birthday was.

I still think it's nice to have a day set up for him, regardless if it's spot on, is his birthday or not.

Like an adopted child

 

[Qre:us]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BahVbztCAAAM_pt.png:large

Leader of Manitoba's Republican Conservative Party's cheerful holiday wishes to Atheist Infidels.

He's so jolly!

 

[/DG/]

Haha. I once told some Muslim friends of mine that I was an atheist after they asked if I was Christian. They then asked if I celebrated Christmas, and I said "of course!" The look they gave me was just hilarious. They couldn't believe it and we all had a good laugh as I explained myself.

I just don't understand when people are confused about this. Christmas isn't much of a religious holiday anymore. Look at how commercialized we've made it. Some people see this as a bad thing, but I don't. Massive decorations everywhere, presents under the tree, holiday foods, seeing the extended family--what's not to love?!

 

[Beorn]

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/naz1article.html

Or

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/nazareth.html

----

But of course, if you have faith, it means that you will discard reason whatever we say, whatever evidence we provide... It doesn't matter, I forgive you.

Lol. You are not on the side of reason and evidence. You are in crackpot territory.

Bart Ehrman abandoned the faith, but even he can't go so far as to say Jesus didn't exist. That's ridiculous.

Few of these mythicists are actually scholars trained in ancient history, religion, biblical studies or any cognate field, let alone in the ancient languages generally thought to matter for those who want to say something with any degree of authority about a Jewish teacher who (allegedly) lived in first-century Palestine. There are a couple of exceptions: of the hundreds -- thousands? -- of mythicists, two (to my knowledge) actually have Ph.D. credentials in relevant fields of study. But even taking these into account, there is not a single mythicist who teaches New Testament or Early Christianity or even Classics at any accredited institution of higher learning in the Western world. And it is no wonder why. These views are so extreme and so unconvincing to 99.99 percent of the real experts that anyone holding them is as likely to get a teaching job in an established department of religion as a six-day creationist is likely to land on in a bona fide department of biology.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html

 

[Blackmail!]

Lol. You are not on the side of reason and evidence. You are in crackpot territory.

Bart Ehrman abandoned the faith, but even he can't go so far as to say Jesus didn't exist. That's ridiculous.





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html

His claim is completely false. Just writing that says a lot how bitter, insane and delusional this man has become...

Do you realize you're quoting someone who received a PhD in... Theology!!!
His credentials are... RI-DI-CU-LOUS!!!! I pity him and his nonsensical circular reasoning.

On the other hand many TRUE historians criticized his works and biased allegations. At last, for instance Richard Carrier has a PhD in History... not in Theology!!! Come on, let's be serious!
And let me quote Bertrand Russel: "Historically, it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about Him, so that I am not concerned with the historical question, which is a very difficult one..."


----

But anyway, Beorn, I understand that, as a Christian, you would find the mere idea that Yehoshua never existed at all to be obscene and monstruous, "unthinkable", and that you would try to fight it with all your heart. As a believer, you can't be rational and objective: it's simply not possible.

But I forgive you nevertheless, because I understand why, on that specific subject, it should be absolutely impossible to have a sane, calm and reasonable discussion with you. And if you acknowledge it, I ask you to forgive me in return.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

I still don't get it guys.

It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?

Majority of the people who say they are "Christian's" have probably never really read the bible, too.

My parents would probably say they are "Christian" when in fact, they are probably more agnostic. But because they grew up in a Christian/Catholic household, they'll claim such. I'm an athiest and I celebrate Christmas. But to me, it's about nostalgia and family and friends and sharing love with one another. It's a way to warm up the colder season. So even though I have no actual religious ties myself to the holiday, I find it "spiritual" in the sense of bringing people together.

 

[xisnotx]

yo, god or not, the spirit it brings about is awesome. i love christmas.
traditions don't need to make sense.
why the hell do we put our teeth under our pillow when we lose them?
it's just something to do.
humans love to bond.
even if it is pretty strange how.

 

[Redbone]

why the hell do we put our teeth under our pillow when we lose them?

Where else would they get raw material for billiard balls?