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  1. #81
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I celebrate it for the conspicuous consumption
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

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  2. #82
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I know a lot of atheists- or people who do not believe in God- or the miracle birth of Jesus, who celebrate Christmas.

    Trees, lights, presents- the whole nine yards.

    This is strange to me.

    What gives?
    There are spiritual Christians, and there are cultural Christians; I am an agnostic who is very much a cultural Christian (and cultural Protestant in particular). I find personal enrichment from Christmas celebrations, even those of a religious nature; it brings back the 'spirit' of the holiday I felt during my youth. Besides, How many people who celebrate Saint Patrick's are Irish, or Mardi Gras Catholic? Sometimes holidays are just plain fun for their own sake.

    Why shouldn't I celebrate it?

  3. #83
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qrious View Post
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BahVbztCAAAM_pt.png:large

    Leader of Manitoba's Republican Conservative Party's cheerful holiday wishes to Atheist Infidels.

    He's so jolly!



  4. #84
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There are spiritual Christians, and there are cultural Christians; I am an agnostic who is very much a cultural Christian (and cultural Protestant in particular). I find personal enrichment from Christmas celebrations, even those of a religious nature; it brings back the 'spirit' of the holiday I felt during my youth. Besides, How many people who celebrate Saint Patrick's are Irish, or Mardi Gras Catholic? Sometimes holidays are just plain fun for their own sake.

    Why shouldn't I celebrate it?
    Well I am seeing from the vast number of similar responses (not religious- but finding meaning in the celebration for various reasons) that Christmas is something different for different people. I see it as celebrating the birth of Christ- who delivered the word of God. And I see celebrating it and NOT believing that to be in complete conflict- but others obviously do not see this as a conflict. And yes- to each his own. Peace love and celebration. No harm no foul. I was just really curious about the personal reconcilation of people surrounding this construct- but I see people have given it thought and have put context around these holiday celebrations and what they mean in their own lives. And I respect people being true to themselves.
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  5. #85
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    double post- yikes
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  6. #86
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Christmas was not about Christ until Christians declared it to be so. It was once a pagan holiday called Yule and it used to be about the winter solstice.
    Yule or Yuletide ("Yule time") is a religious festival observed by the historical Germanic peoples, later being absorbed into and equated with the Christian festival of Christmas.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

    So I can imagine the pagans thinking "what's with all these christians going around celebrating Yule? Don't they know it's about the winter solstice?"
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  7. #87
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Christmas was not about Christ until Christians declared it to be so. It was once a pagan holiday called Yule and it used to be about the winter solstice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

    So I can imagine the pagans thinking "what's with all these christians going around celebrating Yule? Don't they know it's about the winter solstice?"
    Yes, and Santa Claus is in fact the pagan God Odin, before it was bought as an advertisement by the Coca-Cola company.

    Santa = Wotan
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  8. #88
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Christmas was not about Christ until Christians declared it to be so. It was once a pagan holiday called Yule and it used to be about the winter solstice.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

    So I can imagine the pagans thinking "what's with all these christians going around celebrating Yule? Don't they know it's about the winter solstice?"
    @AzulEyes would probably getter a better answer to the question "Why do non-Christians celebrate Easter?" which is a purely Christian holiday.

    The answer for me, is I don't. Good Friday is simply a day off work to me. Nothing more. I imagine this is true for most atheists, although those with kids might due the Easter Bunny/chocolate thing while the kids are young.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I know a lot of atheists- or people who do not believe in God- or the miracle birth of Jesus, who celebrate Christmas.

    Trees, lights, presents- the whole nine yards.

    This is strange to me.

    What gives?
    I see Christmas as more of a winter holiday celebration that has slowly evolved more into a globalized capitalistic frenzy to justify indulging in frivolous spending, while also gradually disassociating itself from any real overt religion themes, essentially making it a more all-encompassing spend-a-thon.

    And yes, I get that it's somewhat hypocritical to to indulge in this being that I'd consider myself agnostic, but honestly, who gives a fuck? I don't really have the energy or care factor to be so militant in the practice of my believes, and I do enjoy getting free stuff while eating good food as well.

  10. #90
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    Well I am seeing from the vast number of similar responses (not religious- but finding meaning in the celebration for various reasons) that Christmas is something different for different people. I see it as celebrating the birth of Christ- who delivered the word of God. And I see celebrating it and NOT believing that to be in complete conflict- but others obviously do not see this as a conflict. And yes- to each his own. Peace love and celebration. No harm no foul. I was just really curious about the personal reconcilation of people surrounding this construct- but I see people have given it thought and have put context around these holiday celebrations and what they mean in their own lives. And I respect people being true to themselves.
    Did it ever occur to you that not all the people celebrating at this time of year are observing Christmas? There are many holidays around this time: Hanukkah, Diwali, Yule, Kwanzaa, and yes, Christmas. All use light as a central symbol, not surprising as we are nearing the Winter Solstice, when the days are shortest for everyone, whatever we choose to celebrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Christmas was not about Christ until Christians declared it to be so. It was once a pagan holiday called Yule and it used to be about the winter solstice.

    So I can imagine the pagans thinking "what's with all these christians going around celebrating Yule? Don't they know it's about the winter solstice?"
    Exactly. I do get a chuckle the rest of the year, whenever Christians object to the five-pointed star as a Pagan, Wiccan, or even Satanic symbol. They have no problem putting one on the top of their "Christmas" tree, or even over their nativity scene. The Goddess giving birth to the new baby God at midwinter, as the light returns to the world. Some themes truly are universal.

    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    @AzulEyes would probably getter a better answer to the question "Why do non-Christians celebrate Easter?" which is a purely Christian holiday.

    The answer for me, is I don't. Good Friday is simply a day off work to me. Nothing more. I imagine this is true for most atheists, although those with kids might due the Easter Bunny/chocolate thing while the kids are young.
    Not so at all. Easter corresponds with the Pagan holiday Ostara, coinciding with Spring Equinox, a time of balance when new life is returning to the world. The resurrected Christ is that new life, as are the new shoots in the field. Jesus' return from death even parallels the return of Persephone from her months in the underworld - another common theme. And that Easter Bunny and the eggs she brings? Symbols of fertility, of course, all with Pagan origins for obvious reason.

    That's how it is with Pagan symbols usually. Their meanings are obvious and intuitive, because they are based on the reality of the natural world around us, the world God(dess) created. We don't have to do mental gymnastics and see in the tree the cross on which Jesus hung to bring the life of redemption to the world. A tree can represent life just being its own tree self.

    FWIW, there are Pagan holidays corresponding to the equinoxes, solstices, and the cross-quarter dates halfway between these, making 8 yearly holidays. All of these have some vestiges in the modern and even the Christian world, though some, like Yule, are much more obvious than others.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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