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  1. #11
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I still don't get it guys.

    It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

    Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?
    I'll let someone far more motivated (read: anyone other than me) educate you on Christmas's paganistic origins and parallels with the winter solstice and blah blah blah...

    Also, all of the retailers in the country who start hawking their Christmas crap MONTHS before December would like a word with you
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  2. #12
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    The holiday as it exists today is anything but Christian.

    What rubs me the wrong way is Christians that think buying tons of crap, getting stressed out, and putting glitter and lights everywhere is in any way worshiping God just cuz his name and image are peppered in.

    The whole thing gives me the heebie jeebies to be honest.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  3. #13
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    Do it!
    Just give me a place to stay before you dig the claws in!
    You're on your own for that I'm afraid. I'm only in the business of slaughtering the moral standing of a once great country. Actually finding a better one is three doors down the hall
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  4. #14
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I still don't get it guys.

    It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

    Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?
    It's not disrespectful in our eyes if the Christianity story means nothing to us. It's just having a good time.

    FWIW, holiday celebrations at this time of year happened well before the advent of Christianity (see Saturnalia)... if December 25 even has anything to do with the birth of Christ at all for that matter. Makes the Christian angle to the December holiday celebrations look ironically suspicious to atheists.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I still don't get it guys.

    It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

    Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?
    I don't think it's disrespectful. If you strip down to solely religious Christianity, there is little reason for Christmas as it's celebrated now at all, as @Eruca illustrated well. In fact, the Bible mentions environmental cues that would place the birth of Jesus in the summer months, not in the wintertime. For me, Christmas is part of my family history, my culture, and an integrated part of my belief set. It's part of a long history of death-rebirth solstice celebrations, and a festival of love, warmth, and light. I don't feel like I am any less entitled to celebrate it than someone who explicitly claims Christianity as their religion.

  6. #16
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I still don't get it guys.

    It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

    Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?
    Well, that's just it. It isn't that obvious anymore and that trend probably started a century ago. So there is a new secular tradition evolving. How do I hurt anybody's feelings by celebrating in the privacy at my home with my family? How is celebrating a day of love and joy disrespectful? Also, christmas id everywhere and unavoidable in the public square. isn't that disrespectful towards non-christians, especially if you considerit an excluisive rather than an inclusive holiday? What about those that celebrate a different holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Glad to see our evil conspiracy to Ruin America(tm) has it's foul tentacles extended all the way across the pond
    Hey, we invented the christmas tree and the christmas calender (IIRC)!
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  7. #17
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I'll let someone far more motivated (read: anyone other than me) educate you on Christmas's paganistic origins and parallels with the winter solstice and blah blah blah...

    Also, all of the retailers in the country who start hawking their Christmas crap MONTHS before December would like a word with you
    lol

    I get the bigger picture motivation to keep Christmas going- and commercialized.

    I guess as an ENFP who is fascinated by what makes people tick and how they tick etc.- I'm trying to reconcile this idea that someone is "going with the crowd" and celebrating a Christian holiday (regardless of the origins of the specific rituals) when they outwardly deny Christianity.

    I'm wondering how an individual feels "okay" with this. If you are firm in your atheist beliefs, why not forgo any Christmas celebration? I can see going along with it for friends that are Christian. But putting up a tree, buying presents. I dunno. I've always been bewildered by people that celebrate to the hilt but do not respect the reason behind it.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Well, that's just it. It isn't that obvious anymore and that trend probably started a century ago. So there is a new secular tradition evolving. How do I hurt anybody's feelings by celebrating in the privacy at my home with my family? How is celebrating a day of love and joy disrespectful? Also, christmas id everywhere and unavoidable in the public square. isn't that disrespectful towards non-christians, especially if you considerit an excluisive rather than an inclusive holiday? What about those that celebrate a different holiday?



    Hey, we invented the christmas tree and the christmas calender (IIRC)!
    I'm not even talking about outwardly being disrespectful to others who look at Christmas in a religious and holy way.

    I mean to YOURSELF. How do you reconcile with yourself that it is okay?

    But I see all the responses here. That the celebrations themselves surrounding winter solstice and traditions and that the birth of Christ sort of got thrown into that.

    Not sure I completely buy that- but I understand the point, nonetheless.
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  9. #19
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I still don't get it guys.

    It is clearly celebrating the birth of Christ. Considered a "Savior" to Christians. A life-changing event- the pinnacle event of Christiandom.

    Doesn't it seem like people are just jumping on the bandwagon to have the fun stuff- the presents and food and festivities- and that it is a disrespect to Christianity if you outright deny the existance of God and Jesus?
    I'm pretty sure the trees and gifts and candles and all that stuff are actually absorbed into Christmas from various pre-Christian traditions.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #20
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    I'm not even talking about outwardly being disrespectful to others who look at Christmas in a religious and holy way.

    I mean to YOURSELF. How do you reconcile with yourself that it is okay?

    But I see all the responses here. That the celebrations themselves surrounding winter solstice and traditions and that the birth of Christ sort of got thrown into that.

    Not sure I completely buy that- but I understand the point, nonetheless.
    Well, as I said, it never had anything to do with christianity for me. I would never fake believing something I don't. It is a beautiful childhood memory (that is about blinkering lights and a cosy atmosphere and special food, etc.) that I am grateful for and want to keep alive and pass on to the next generation. I honestly have a hard time even understanding why this should be an ethical problem towards myself. I basically celebrate it for the same reason I celebrate birthdays: it's fun and makes everybody involved happy. That is enough of a rational reason.
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