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  1. #11
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Do you understand why I told the OP that he still believes in objective morals?
    Not entirely...
    Could you elaborate?
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  2. #12
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
    I recall reading "What is qualitatively different can never be equal" So, I'd have to disagree. All I can think of is the revolution of formula, that enabled women the option to pursue a career instead of nursing.... Only in that equation the baby is left with inferior health, both physical/ nutritional and psychological/ nurturing. Also, it has been said that “Our experiences teach us that psychological differences among people are the cause of misunderstandings and problems. We can overcome these problems only if we accept psychological differences as a law of nature and appreciate their creative value. This would also enable us to gain an objectice comprehension of man and human societies, unfortunetely, it would also teach us that equality under the law is inequality under the law of nature.”
    Sorry but I don't see how equal rights is evil. your opinion notwithstanding.

  3. #13
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Do you understand why I told the OP that he still believes in objective morals?
    so you can read souls? eek!!

    Morality IMO doesn't exist.

  4. #14
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Not entirely...
    Could you elaborate?
    Hah, so someone finally asks!

    In order to believe that nothing has value, that morals are "sold" as says the OP, it is implied in that OP that this is because the universe has no objective standard of morality. This is nihilism. Not subjectivism. Nihilism is an objectivistic view of morality because it believes morals are contigent on there being some kind of objective rule out there, and since we cant find any objective rule of morals, they must not exist. How is this different from an objective outlook on morality? Its saying "morals can only exist if they exist as a universal standard. I see no such standard, hence, there are no morals, I give up and dont care about anything". This isnt subjectivism in the least, subjectivism does not deny morals. It believes those morals are subjective, but not nonexistant.

    This is why I feel OP is still stuck in the framework of objective morals, as is every nihilist I ave come across as well. This is why I dot agree with nihilism to begin with; morals(or at least ethics) are subjective, they dont depend on a higher power or cosmic law to exist...

  5. #15
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Hah, so someone finally asks!

    In order to believe that nothing has value, that morals are "sold" as says the OP, it is implied in that OP that this is because the universe has no objective standard of morality. This is nihilism. Not subjectivism. Nihilism is an objectivistic view of morality because it is believes morals are contigent on there being some kind of objective rule out there, and since we cant find any objective rule of morals, they must not exist. How is this different from an objective outlook on morality? Its saying "morals can only exist if they exist as a universal standard. I see no such standard, hence, there are no morals, I give up and dont care about anything". This isnt subjectivism in the least, subjectivism does not deny morals. It believes those morals are subjective, but not nonexistant.

    This is why I feel OP is still stuck in the framework of objective morals, as is every nihilist I ave come across as well. This is why I dot agree with nihilism to begin with; morals(or at least ethics) are subjective, they dont depend on a higher power or cosmic law to exist...
    I disagree. Morals don't exist, period. Only children/silly people need morals.

    Morals are merely in the eye of the beholder.

  6. #16
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    I disagree. Morals don't exist, period. Only children/silly people need morals.

    Morals are merely in the eye of the beholder.
    And heres to you completely misunderstanding everything I wrote in that last post.

    *facepalm*

  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    People often collectively agree on morals, which is still subjective, but it's as close as we can get to being objective about morality.

    The subtle play of individual judgement always comes into play and human beings are more likely to align with those they hold the highest value of in their own lives.

    Rights are a rough way of making sure negative things don't happen to an individual, or rather yourself as the individual and so through those rights people believe they are setting a standard, I suppose if it could be adhered to strictly, there would be a rough standard, but the individual level always takes over in the heat of a moment.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
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    @danseen @prplchknz

    Stop replying to one another. In all threads. Just.. stop. Your back-and-forth is ruining a few threads.

    This is, like, the pre-warning.

  9. #19
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Hah, so someone finally asks!

    In order to believe that nothing has value, that morals are "sold" as says the OP, it is implied in that OP that this is because the universe has no objective standard of morality. This is nihilism. Not subjectivism. Nihilism is an objectivistic view of morality because it believes morals are contigent on there being some kind of objective rule out there, and since we cant find any objective rule of morals, they must not exist. How is this different from an objective outlook on morality? Its saying "morals can only exist if they exist as a universal standard. I see no such standard, hence, there are no morals, I give up and dont care about anything". This isnt subjectivism in the least, subjectivism does not deny morals. It believes those morals are subjective, but not nonexistant.

    This is why I feel OP is still stuck in the framework of objective morals, as is every nihilist I ave come across as well. This is why I dot agree with nihilism to begin with; morals(or at least ethics) are subjective, they dont depend on a higher power or cosmic law to exist...
    Indeed, I believe I understand, now...

    Men and women create their own meanings and values, and these meanings and values accrue into the collective subjective consciousness. Values that are highly different from the accepted norms of the subjective collective consciousness are considered wrong. While there is no objective standard of right and wrong, within a given society there will be a collectively subjective norm which members of that society are expected to follow. Thus, morals exist and effect the world in often drastic ways, but they are still subjective...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #20
    Member CheshireCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    Sorry but I don't see how equal rights is evil. your opinion notwithstanding.
    Its not the "equal rights", its the power of legislation over the law. Arguments have been brought up time and time again asserting that legislation is a mere tool to hold one class of persons in subjection by another class of persons.

    "But if justice be a natural principle, then it is necessarily an immutable one; and can no more be changed- by any power inferior to that which established it- than can be the law of gravitation, the laws of light, the principles of mathematics, or any other natural law or principle whatever;" The science of Justice
    "The unconscious mind should be called the super-conconsious mind."

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