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Thread: What is faith?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity View Post
    I agree.



    I think that when you add foundation it is no longer faith. It is evidence-based belief, which is rational.

    Faith is irrational.

    I am now interested in the difference between faith and hope.
    I don't know, but I would rather hear someone say that they have high faith in me rather than them saying that they have high hopes for me. The former sounds more reassuring, the latter more pressured.

    Maybe then faith is more to make us feel better, and hope to wish that things will be better.

  2. #22
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    I guess I always thought faith had an active component... sort of putting your money where your mouth is.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I guess I always thought faith had an active component... sort of putting your money where your mouth is.
    Like love?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Like love?
    Yep
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity View Post
    Well, that's not my view of consciousness at all. I suspect consciousness emerged as part of self-awareness which enables us to program ourselves more efficiently than evolution could otherwise.

    I also think religion was selected for and has many adaptive features. I see faith and confirmation bias as deeply linked and I think both were selected for for their adaptive traits. Whether they are still adaptive is an open question. Some confirmation bias - aka cultural inertia - is certainly useful - it's a classic stability vs. plasticity tradeoff. How much though? Your move.
    Yeah, that's the simplistic and athiestic summing up of religion I'm used to hearing.

    You're satisfied with that yeah?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Faith is the assurance [the confirmation] of things we hope for, the proof of what we have not seen and the steadfast conviction of their reality before it is manifested in the physical realm [faith perceives as real fact what cannot yet be perceived by the senses.] Faith is illogical. Yet, it works to those who believe. Without faith, it is impossible to attain spirituality and since faith is the substance of hope, it is impossible to hope without faith of some sort. Faith works by love and therefore, love is the ultimate expression of faith.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Faith is illogical. Yet, it works to those who believe. Without faith, it is impossible to attain spirituality and since faith is the substance of hope, it is impossible to hope without faith of some sort. Faith works by love and therefore, love is the ultimate expression of faith.
    This is the kind of reasoning I was referring to when I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity
    A dopamine reservoir with a built-in positive feedback loop.
    I don't understand why those who acknowledge that faith is irrational and yet espouse its virtues even bother continuing to think and speak. You have already acknowledged that you don't make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Faith is the assurance [the confirmation] of things we hope for, the proof of what we have not seen and the steadfast conviction of their reality before it is manifested in the physical realm [faith perceives as real fact what cannot yet be perceived by the senses.] Faith is illogical. Yet, it works to those who believe. Without faith, it is impossible to attain spirituality and since faith is the substance of hope, it is impossible to hope without faith of some sort. Faith works by love and therefore, love is the ultimate expression of faith.
    It's a bit hard to follow your deductive chain here, but I agree that faith is a good connector between various contexts. It can give us proofs of higher truths and realities, but we have to catch those glimspes by intuitive means, not by rational means. It seems like we also put our faith into things that we love, into things which have good promise and strong evidence for future returns.

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    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mingularity View Post
    This is the kind of reasoning I was referring to when I said:

    I don't understand why those who acknowledge that faith is irrational and yet espouse its virtues even bother continuing to think and speak. You have already acknowledged that you don't make sense.
    Yeah, I know what you meant, but insulting my answers will not make me see you as having a superior intellect. The thread asked, "What is faith?" so, I gave a definition. Agree or disagree, it really doesn't matter to me.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Yeah, I know what you meant, but insulting my answers will not make me see you as having a superior intellect. The thread asked, "What is faith?" so, I gave a definition. Agree or disagree, it really doesn't matter to me.
    If it didn't matter you probably wouldn't have replied.

    I am not interested in being seen as having a superior intellect. I am interested in being less wrong. Hence, I want you to try to prove to me that faith is justifiable, and I want to try to prove to you that it is not.

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