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  1. #61
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    What I'm questioning is why we place higher value on some forms of culture while dismissing others as inferior. I understand where you're coming from, because sometimes I feel the same way, but isn't that a kind of an elitist attitude? Everyone's experience is different. If people prefer sweet sparkly wine rather than the more mature and delicate good wines, is it fair to judge them? If they identify more with Beyonce's music rather than Mozart's, is it fair to judge them? Culture is culture; art is art. I like to believe there is no high or low, because the effect of art is entirely individual.
    This is the conventional wisdom.

    And it is the conventional wisdom of the business which sells low culture.

    The low culture business does not care about our emotional, intellectual or social wellbeing, they are only concerned with making money by appealing to our lowest instincts.

    And just as bad money drives out good, so low culture drives out high culture.

    And just as quick money is addictive, so low culture is also addictive.

    Low culture appeals to our vanity, while high culture appeals to our self respect.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Why experience something through an egoistic medium like books when I can watched it through a shared communal tribal medium like film or tv?
    Good question.

    It's true the book does create us as literate individuals, or as you say, egos, while the electric media create us as an electronic tribe in the global village.

    However the book has been around since 1440 and has developed a cannon of literature, while the electronic media have only been around since 1840 and have yet to develop their cannon.

  3. #63
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    High Culture and Barbarism

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    High culture serves as a barrier to entry.
    It certainly does.

    High culture serves as a barrier to the illiterate, to those who prey on the vulnerable, to those ignorant of history, to revolutionaries, to those who want to tear down everything that is good, to those who reject evidence and reason, freedom and equality, to those who reject empathy and creativity, to those who reject the humanism of the Rennaisance.

    High culture is a barrier to barbarism.

  4. #64
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I was lucky. I was introduced to high culture by someone who loved me, my father.

    High culture has given me good taste. This has proved invaluable as it enables me to distinguish a good environment from a bad environment.

    And I need this because I tend to be an idealist and so can easily go where angels fear to tread. But if my good taste tells me something is toxic, I tend to avoid it.

    But most of all, high culture is valuable in itself. It may have positive spinoffs, like empathy, social perception, emotional intelligence, and good taste, but high culture appeals to the best in us, so high culture is worthwhile for its own sake.
    I feel very fortunate that my family was able to give me halfway decent grammar and taught me to be polite. It was very well done for our social class, especially considering that my mother graduated high school by a correspondence course and I was illegitimate. My grandma (who had a little post-high school education) read me Bible stores and my grandpa (who had a sixth grade education) read me the Sunday comics. They loved me very much, but they could not give me what they did not have. So this is why I ask someone who has it to give, but you do not want to share anything but judgement as far as I can tell. And it makes me a little sad because I like you.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't know enough to know why the Renaissance happened.
    The Rennaisance happened because the Bible was written in Ancient Greek.

    And just as the Ancient Greek Bible was preserved and translated in the Scriptoriums of the Monks, so the philosophical, medical, mathematical, and scientific writings of the Ancient Greeks were also preserved and translated by the Monks in their Scriptoriums.

    And so the Rennaisance happened because we could read the translations of the Ancient Greek texts.

    Rennaisance means rebirth. So the Rennaisance is the rebirth of Ancient Greek culture.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    How @superunknown somehow thinks Ni doms are the one's with sloppy thinking, when Ti users make these kinds of statements, well...
    Hey, I didn't type them.

    Ti types aren't inherently good at correct logic, it is more of a compulsive drive towards logic, even in regards to the irrationality of experience.

  7. #67
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Hey, I didn't type them.

    Ti types aren't inherently good at correct logic, it is more of a compulsive drive towards logic, even in regards to the irrationality of experience.
    Yeah.... I don't think that everything I do or say is logical, but I care about it being logical. Is that what you're getting at? I want to dig at things and uncover the truth of them. It doesn't mean I'm never full of shit, just that not being full of shit tends to be important to me. Of course, you can't always tell when you are full of shit.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  8. #68
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It certainly does.

    High culture serves as a barrier to the illiterate, to those who prey on the vulnerable, to those ignorant of history, to revolutionaries, to those who want to tear down everything that is good, to those who reject evidence and reason, freedom and equality, to those who reject empathy and creativity, to those who reject the humanism of the Rennaisance.

    High culture is a barrier to barbarism.
    If find it hard to beilive that your high culture has resulted in empathy when you consider people with out your taste and experiences to be "barbarians".

  9. #69
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    This is the conventional wisdom.

    And it is the conventional wisdom of the business which sells low culture.

    The low culture business does not care about our emotional, intellectual or social wellbeing, they are only concerned with making money by appealing to our lowest instincts.

    And just as bad money drives out good, so low culture drives out high culture.

    And just as quick money is addictive, so low culture is also addictive.

    Low culture appeals to our vanity, while high culture appeals to our self respect.
    There is value in everything, dear Victor, if you know where to look. And I'll ask you to look upon the world with kindness, even when you feel hopeless.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  10. #70
    until you're fully grown Holy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    If find it hard to believe that your high culture has resulted in empathy when you consider people with out your taste and experiences to be "barbarians".
    This made me smile.

    Also, who are the ones who decide high culture? I thought beauty was in the eye of the beholder. I think presentation of ideas is just as important as the content. There is more than one path to enlightenment. What use would it be to embrace peace and shun so called 'barbaric' behavior if one has never experienced it themselves? I'm not saying going out and murdering people. I just mean embracing a baser side of one's own consciousness, at least at one point in their lives seems...a little more genuine to me than thinking that I have experienced the entire world just because I read or saw a movie about it.

    That being said, I also understand the other side of the argument as well. I just worry that the ones who usually have easier access to 'high class' material, will always been seen in a perfect light while the ones who do not are just as easily cast into a bias that says that they will always have a negative impact on society. It's not as if the only things you can learn from 'high class' material are virtue. You could just as easily learn how to be an adversary.
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