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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I found an in-depth description of the study in question. The subjects read a few passages from various books for just a couple of minutes (or read nothing at all), then took computer tests to measure their ability to notice people around them. It was all very short-term, sort of like using literature as a quickie brain-teaser to stimulate curiosity about people around you. No word on the longer-term results of exposure to literature.

    Here's an excerpt, including an explanation of how they think the effect operates:

    Anyway, just to throw in my two cents: Yeah, high literature probably makes you more curious about yourself vs. the world. On the other hand, popular culture would probably be better than high literature when it comes to attuning you to social conventions and rules as they are actually practiced on the day-to-day level. In other words, watching an hour of "Jersey Shore" (popular culture reality series) will probably give you more confidence when it comes time to actually go out into society and interact directly with others, because when you watch a "reality series" you can see normal social rules and interactions spelled out and played out right in front of you.

    College professor and cultural commentator Camille Paglia recently stated that the most exciting thing currently happening in the arts are the various “Real Housewives” reality TV shows: "It’s an entire all-absorbing universe of pride and passion. [...] This is contemporary cinematography at its sparkling best." http://www.salon.com/2013/08/21/cami...nce/singleton/

    To put it another way: High culture probably tunes up your Fi, while popular culture probably tunes up your Fe. High culture and popular culture aren't mutually exclusive; it's not a zero-sum game. A well-rounded individual probably needs a good awareness of both types of culture in order to function well in the world.
    Popular culture is propaganda as taught by that great American propagandist, Edward Bernays, in his book called, "Propaganda".

    American propaganda works to shape the way we see the world, and American propaganda works to teach us the rules, and American propaganda warns us what will happen to us if we don't follow the American rules.

    On the other hand, high culture frees our mind, transcends the rules, and steps outside the taken-for-granted into ecstasy.

    Popular culture dulls the mind, dulls the feelings, and ruins our taste, while high culture reaches the heights of the human mind, explores exquisite feelings, and leaves us with good taste.

    So popular culture leaves us with a bad taste in our mouths, while high culture refreshes our taste and gives us an appetite for the very best.

    So put your revolver away.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    @Mole I think we might be talking about different things, but I think you know where I'm coming from and I know where you're coming from and we might not even be in disagreement, so I'll leave it at that.

    Out of curiosity, in your opinion, is 'popular culture' from the past, say, the 18th century, considered 'high culture' of today? What about medieval folk music (that was considered 'popular culture' back then as opposed to 'high culture' church music)? There was a certain point in time where all 'novels' were considered simply 'entertainment' and therefore 'low culture', which is not true nowadays where some novels are regarded as great works of art and therefore high culture.
    It does take a while to appreciate the quality of a particular work of art or science.

    But in the background is the canon of quality, so quality is not an entirely arbitary choice.

    And when we come to appreciate the quality of a work of art or science, it then joins the canon.

    So the canon reminds us of quality when we meet the latest work of art or science.

    We are not left entirely on our own, we rest in the arms of the canon.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It does take a while to appreciate the quality of a particular work of art or science.

    But in the background is the canon of quality, so quality is not an entirely arbitary choice.

    And when we come to appreciate the quality of a work of art or science, it then joins the canon.

    So the canon reminds us of quality when we meet the latest work of art or science.

    We are not left entirely on our own, we rest in the arms of the canon.
    It's all about the appreciation of skill.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    The fountain, and the other "ready-made" works question what it takes to classify something as a work of art. Duchamps claim is that it only takes his naming it art, signing it as a work, to change to object from just a random object to a work of art. And it works! people suddenly give this object which they would otherwise overlook, their attention. SImply because he has signed it and placed it within the space where we view art.
    So it WAS a practical joke, in a sense. I see how it can get people to think, though. Rather than just assuming things have prestige because of where they are, to determine if they merit it.

    He's considered a beginner of conceptual art because its not about craft or technique it is pure conceptual thought. A key question in conceptual art is what is art about? Creating a beautiful object or communicating an idea?
    Idea. I don't think a 5 year old snapping a beautiful picture by accident should be considered art. Beautiful objects exist in nature, they aren't art though. To me, intent matters.

    Although, what if the intent of the creator is different from the interpretation of the viewer? I think it doesn't matter what someone meant to say, only what someone hears. But I think they need to be trying to say something.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It's all about the appreciation of skill.
    Is high culture a matter of skill, or is it an existential matter?

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Is high culture a matter of skill, or is it an existential matter?
    Both I would say.

    Those two concepts play into one another

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Both I would say.

    Those two concepts play into one another
    High culture is an end rather than a means.

    Whereas a skill is a means rather than an end.

    So high culture is like you and I: we are ends in ourselves rather than a means to an end.

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