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It's hopeless...:(

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Rather than psychotically projecting your pain, misery, sadness and suffering onto the world, why not find a good therapist who will listen to your personal pain, misery and suffering?

What the hell is psychotic about it? Maybe he just makes you uncomfortable because you'd rather not think about what he's talking about at all. People having feelings other than happiness and expressing them in ways other than shitty poetry is not psychotic.

"'I'm sorry, I can't be bothered... you should tell this to someone you're paying to listen to you." That's a really shitty thing to say to someone. It's just a compassionate way of saying "Fuck off, I don't want to hear it." You're pissing on his leg and telling him it's rain.

So much for people opening up and sharing in the tribal audile-tactile world after the implosion of the Gutenberg Galaxy.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not pathologically but he's grappling with actual philosophical issues that he's going to need to find answers. Either that, or he's not doing enough satisfying things, or is pursuing something at odds with who he is. Paying someone to listen isn't going to help with any of that.
 

Avocado

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What the hell is psychotic about it? Maybe he just makes you uncomfortable because you'd rather not think about what he's talking about at all. People having feelings other than happiness and expressing them in ways other than shitty poetry is not psychotic.

"'I'm sorry, I can't be bothered... you should tell this to someone you're paying to listen to you." That's a really shitty thing to say to someone. It's just a compassionate way of saying "Fuck off, I don't want to hear it." You're pissing on his leg and telling him it's rain.

So much for people opening up and sharing in the tribal audile-tactile world after the implosion of the Gutenberg Galaxy.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not pathologically but he's grappling with actual philosophical issues that he's going to need to find answers. Either that, or he's not doing enough satisfying things, or is pursuing something at odds with who he is. Paying someone to listen isn't going to help with any of that.

Thank you…
I felt that same sentiment, but was afraid to throw it out there…
 

Mole

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What the hell is psychotic about it? Maybe he just makes you uncomfortable because you'd rather not think about what he's talking about at all. People having feelings other than happiness and expressing them in ways other than shitty poetry is not psychotic.

"'I'm sorry, I can't be bothered... you should tell this to someone you're paying to listen to you." That's a really shitty thing to say to someone. It's just a compassionate way of saying "Fuck off, I don't want to hear it." You're pissing on his leg and telling him it's rain.

So much for people opening up and sharing in the tribal audile-tactile world after the implosion of the Gutenberg Galaxy.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not pathologically but he's grappling with actual philosophical issues that he's going to need to find answers. Either that, or he's not doing enough satisfying things, or is pursuing something at odds with who he is. Paying someone to listen isn't going to help with any of that.

We've got a choice: we can continue to project or we can examine ourselves.

And a trained psychotherapist helps us to stop blaming others and to examine ourselves.

And compare what else we would spend the money on - psychotherapy comes out on top.

But of course it's not the money, it's fear of letting go of our parents and looking after ourselves.
 

Amargith

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[MENTION=18694]Magic Qwan[/MENTION]

You're not alone in being trapped in that pov. Many people wrestle with that feeling in their lives. Ime, it requires being at peace with being a mortal being and being at peace with the fact that we all are continuously growing. And growth often is forged through pain. Death, pain and suffering all have their very vital roles to play in the world. Without pain, we would not know that change is required. Without suffering, we would not know how to empathise and relate to others in pain and help each other overcome it. And without death, we would not feel the need to act now, seize the moment and become the most amazing individuals.

It is often in the smallest tasks that we find the most joy. It seems like you feel the despair and pressure of a man faced with an impossible mountain to climb. But no one is forcing you to climb that mountain, or do it in one go. That is the beauty of life; you choose your own mountains to climb. On top of that, NO ONE is expecting you climb that mountain perfectly, or to go for the tallest one ever. Except for yourself. You are robbing yourself of the joy of life by putting such impossible demands on yourself, as often life becomes a lot more enjoyable when you approach it with the playfulness of a child. People underestimate the seriousness of playing. There is a reason that every young animal 'plays'. There is no better substitute nor a more efficient way to learn about life. And learning is what helps us grow, helps us overcome the pain we feel.

Curiosity and an open mind are our best friends, our best tools to face the challenges life has to offer and to see them actually as challenges instead of insurmountable obstacles, and to derive pleasure and satisfaction from meeting them head on and solve those puzzles. Meanwhile, anxiety, together with despair and perfectionism (often causing the individual to put extreme performance pressure on themselves) causes nothing but analysis paralysis and get you no where. There is no need to be that hard on yourself, or take life *that* seriously. Think of one of your favorite games to play and *realize* how often you fail and redo a stage, how much fun it is to learn how to beat a stage, and how easy it is for you to figure out how to thrive in that game's world as you have no real fear of facing it; it is only a game. Now realize that life is just the same, only on a larger scale :wink:

So, stop worrying about your legacy and start smelling the roses. I guarantee you that that legacy will be built as you play along your road. Be curious about life as it is now, follow your fancies, follow your passion. Don't worry about what you 'should' still do or accomplish, just be curious and open to learn. And remember that true mastery and legacy comes from the playfulness of a child, with all the mistakes and puttering and circle running that goes with it. Relish in making mistakes as they will teach you a lot more about life than your anxiety and sadness ever could. It'll help you figure out that puzzl e of life and build that legacy, seemingly without effort, as you continue down the road to smell the roses and explore what this journey has to offer.

And when death comes, as that is the goal for all who walk this earth, take solace in the fact that it is a destination where you will meet all your beloved ones once more. You won't be alone. Nor will you fear it after having explored all that life has to offer and after having left your footprints in the sand everywhere. You will be ready to greet Death as an old friend, there to take you on your next journey.
 

hjgbujhghg

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There is nothing but pain, misery, sadness, and suffering in the world. In all honesty, and I can say this after observation, things will never improve--rather, they will worsen. Life has no meaning, and there is no reason to pursue meaning. All that man endeavors to do is futile in the eyes of the universe. Man toils all day in the hot sun, just to return to dust the following night. The universe will eventually end, and there will be no record of any of us.

Does anybody care about any of this?

They don't.

Humans would rather be cruel to each other and injure each other than aid each other. This planet is nothing but a boiling cesspool of crime and villainy, there are no redeeming qualities. All that awaits humankind is a black pit of nothingness. Why even care about anything?

I have spent my life in so much pain, and I am truly aware that it has been in vain.

All hope is lost...

I experienced the same... And these thougths gave me nothing, but pannic and anxiety disorder. It took me such a long time to get rid of the exact same thoughts as yours. But after months and months of living with these thougths and experiences new and new panic attacks, that came out from these realisations of nothigness and meaningless of everything I realise one thing. If life would be really just a suffering and nothing more, how is it possible, that others look so happy? And they are actually able to feel joy... We can see just the meaningless, or we can be happy just because the sun is shinning and weather is nice, and so if we are able too see something bad in regular things, we are also able to see the beauty of the ordinary things. Everything is just your choice, your angle of looking at bright, or the dark side. Nothing is good, or bad. Everything is bad and also good, it's your choice what side you want to see. Life is suffering and pain, life is love and joy, life is family and friends, life is enemies and idiots, life is stupid, life if ineteling... Someone die, someone get born... Life is full of opposites, it will never be perfect, but it can be wather you want it to be. Everything is in your hands...The ultimate meaning of our existence...Yeah this is the thing that from time to time give me one tinkle of panic, but then... If there is no ultimate meaning for everything at least I can create a meaning for my own self...I know I will die, everyone is going to die, but at least the time before I die I can enjoy as fuck!
 

violet_crown

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There is nothing but pain, misery, sadness, and suffering in the world. In all honesty, and I can say this after observation, things will never improve--rather, they will worsen. Life has no meaning, and there is no reason to pursue meaning. All that man endeavors to do is futile in the eyes of the universe. Man toils all day in the hot sun, just to return to dust the following night. The universe will eventually end, and there will be no record of any of us.

Does anybody care about any of this?

They don't.

Humans would rather be cruel to each other and injure each other than aid each other. This planet is nothing but a boiling cesspool of crime and villainy, there are no redeeming qualities. All that awaits humankind is a black pit of nothingness. Why even care about anything?

I have spent my life in so much pain, and I am truly aware that it has been in vain.

All hope is lost...



Invictus

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.​
 
I

Infinite Bubble

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That has felt depressing to me, too...

If we are only chemicals, what is our significance?

Heh, I thought you may react in that way.

There is no significance. Social conditioning leads us to believe that there is. Existential despair comes from a realization that this is false, and being uncomfortable with that knowledge.

What's the big deal with being significant anyway? If we were, we'd have to live up to something - there'd always be pressure. But there isn't, so we can live a relatively peaceful existence.

And what do you mean only chemicals? It's a marvelously complex and beautiful mechanism; stars in the early universe blew up and their insides are what your very being is made of! We're all children of the stars. There's something humbling to recognise that too.

Many people feel bad for being so small and insignificant in comparison to the rest of the cosmos, but I think that comes from a disconnection between the self and the universe. But there is no disconnection - we are the universe, and the universe is us, it's all the same thing.

When I said "just chemicals", I meant it in a different context; that emotions aren't that big of a deal, just a natural bodily process, and that because of this, the result of them occurring can change, e.i the process can change merely with your very own thoughts. You can choose to see the bad in the widest expanses, or the good in the tiniest details, if you want to. You may as well pick the latter, because there's no right answer anyway.
 

hjgbujhghg

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oh! I realize one thing! Everytime when I feel extremly hopless and meaningless what always somehow chears me up is... We all 7billion people on this plenet are in this meaningless shit togther. And everyone no metter how rich, poor, important... everyone has to deal with the universe and meaning/not meaning just as much as we do. So you're not alone, I am not alone...At least we are in it with other 7 billion people
 

Stanton Moore

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Whenever I feel hopeless something paradoxical happens: I have this surge of joy.
I don’t know why, but those times when I have felt totally without hope, with in a day or so, it breaks and I feel much better.
I think the trick is not to drink or drug it when you feel down, Just feel it, all the way to the bottom. Then you float back up.
I can’t explain it. But I wouldn't know about it if I numbed out all of the time, which I used to do (I have problems, if you must know lol).
 

Lark

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People arent searching for meaning so much as the experience of being alive. The question is whether you will be ready when your adventure arrives?
 

Starry

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Oh boy. Magic Qwan decided to demonstrate he's not an NTP after all by throwing his arms up into the air and screaming 'I fuckin quit!' NFP style... bold move. I like it. I've always reserved this special treat for those closest to me but I can appreciate this method as well.

I haven't read this entire thread Magic Qwan... but if the OP is any indication of what follows I highly doubt there is a feeling you've had that I have not. We may have already discussed this - you and I...but here's the thing...you are not alone in your pain and suffering. And things do not get better. Things do not get easier.

You create something magic or beautiful... and someone is going to be right there to take it away. As fast as you can create...some force will destroy it... and there is nothing you can do about it. So what now? You get back up and start the process all over again. And you do it with happiness in your heart. And as you do this the Magic of Life will start to unfold to you (talking ENFP here for those that may be thinking wtf?) but it will not take away the pain and heartache and suffering. Accept this. It is a constant. But you still get up and create happiness...because you are walking the path of the warrior.

I'm running out the door now and will return to correct whatever may need correcting here.
 

Avocado

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Oh boy. Magic Qwan decided to demonstrate he's not an NTP after all by throwing his arms up into the air and screaming 'I fuckin quit!' NFP style... bold move. I like it. I've always reserved this special treat for those closest to me but I can appreciate this method as well.

I haven't read this entire thread Magic Qwan... but if the OP is any indication of what follows I highly doubt there is a feeling you've had that I have not. We may have already discussed this - you and I...but here's the thing...you are not alone in your pain and suffering. And things do not get better. Things do not get easier.

You create something magic or beautiful... and someone is going to be right there to take it away. As fast as you can create...some force will destroy it... and there is nothing you can do about it. So what now? You get back up and start the process all over again. And you do it with happiness in your heart. And as you do this the Magic of Life will start to unfold to you (talking ENFP here for those that may be thinking wtf?) but it will not take away the pain and heartache and suffering. Accept this. It is a constant. But you still get up and create happiness...because you walking the path of the warrior.

I'm running out the door now and will return to correct whatever may need correcting here.

OK...
I am about to eat a little something...
I really would like to be an at least somewhat famous author someday. I am studying the life of Ray Bradbury for inspiration and ideas on how to balance getting my work out there with making a profit...
Writing will always be secondary to teaching, though.
I believe that children ought to be given knowledge and freedom, rather than
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

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OK...
I am about to eat a little something...
I really would like to be an at least somewhat famous author someday. I am studying the life of Ray Bradbury for inspiration and ideas on how to balance getting my work out there with making a profit...
Writing will always be secondary to teaching, though.
I believe that children ought to be given knowledge and freedom, rather than

Rather than..? Rather than what?! Don't leave us hanging!
 

Avocado

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Rather than..? Rather than what?! Don't leave us hanging!

…Rather than rules and regulations and indoctrination…

I'd like children, too…
After a few years of just learning myself without outside interference…
 

Starry

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OK...
I am about to eat a little something...
I really would like to be an at least somewhat famous author someday. I am studying the life of Ray Bradbury for inspiration and ideas on how to balance getting my work out there with making a profit...
Writing will always be secondary to teaching, though.
I believe that children ought to be given knowledge and freedom, rather than


I know you do. I want you to do me a few favors...okay?

The first thing I would like you to do is...anyone that is telling you you are an e6 or agreeing with you that you 'seem very e6ish'...or talks to you as if you are an e6... or even if you're just buying something at the store and the total comes to $6.60 or whatever... I want you to say to that person "Starry says you don't know shit about the enneagram...and that you're probably a major dumbass in general." <-okay you got that?

Next, I want you to get a detailed description of e9 and e5. Descriptions that include information on the expressions of the lower levels of health for each one (e9 being the integration point for e6 and e5 being the integration point for e7.) And I want you to tell me which description resembles your OP in this thread.

Hold on I need to get some more coffee...
 

Starry

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^^Okay did you get those two things done?

I have turned this over so many times in my mind and I still can't come up with an explanation that 'feels right' to me so to speak... but there are some e7s that form an unhealthy connection to e5 fairly early on in life. I mean, there are some e7s that never will...that will never establish a connection to e5 period whether it be stressful or by way of integration. Like, I'm thinking of my ESTP 7w8 uncle right now <-he's the 'classic' e7...the image of what enters most people's minds when they think of e7...the person you want to hate but find you can't because they are just so unbelievably charming... This uncle of mine will never know e5...and will only be forced into 'sobriety' by aging (but he won't even know this occurring because everything in life is just always awesome.)

I think it's pretty clear that depression is a major contributing factor in this early, unhealthy connection to e5. Hardship... Possibly e4 in a person's tritype...idk. I myself was somewhere in between for years. Like we were discussing in a different thread you created regarding spacing-out... I was the typical e7 optimist...so much so that I didn't understand what I was not processing emotionally...and subsequently these things presented themselves physically instead. But I definitely had my moments of unhealthy e5. Spontaneously losing it because of all the pain and suffering in the world. Giving up. Embracing nihilism. Embracing nihilism until something *magical* brought me back to "LIFE IS AMAZING!!!111"

^^This is what I see you doing MQ. You're just WAY more of a rapid-cycler than I was but I believe you can make this work in your favor. If you can learn this now...you won't go a long time with the rose colored glasses like I did. Actually...I will eventually advise you to keep the rose colored glasses on tbh...but to always remain mindful of wearing them. But I'm going to take another break here....I will return to this.
 

Avocado

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I know you do. I want you to do me a few favors...okay?

The first thing I would like you to do is...anyone that is telling you you are an e6 or agreeing with you that you 'seem very e6ish'...or talks to you as if you are an e6... or even if you're just buying something at the store and the total comes to $6.60 or whatever... I want you to say to that person "Starry says you don't know shit about the enneagram...and that you're probably a major dumbass in general." <-okay you got that?

Next, I want you to get a detailed description of e9 and e5. Descriptions that include information on the expressions of the lower levels of health for each one (e9 being the integration point for e6 and e5 being the integration point for e7.) And I want you to tell me which description resembles your OP in this thread.

Hold on I need to get some more coffee...

Alright...
I will show you what I see in myself...

Enneagram 5:
 

Avocado

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Enneagram 9:
 

Avocado

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Enneagram 6:
 
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