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View Poll Results: What are your thoughts on the Mormons?

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  • Mormons have good values.

    8 50.00%
  • Mormons have the truth.

    2 12.50%
  • Mormons are Christian.

    5 31.25%
  • Mormons have bad values.

    3 18.75%
  • Mormons don't have the truth.

    7 43.75%
  • Mormons aren't Christian.

    6 37.50%
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Results 41 to 49 of 49

  1. #41
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Maybe what we do may seem far fetched for others, but if you knew that was the truth, I think you'd give your all to support and embrace the truth and want others to join it too. Not saying I am ever perfect throwing my whole life for this work but I know that the Book of Mormon is true and Jesus Christ is my Savior and I know that Heavenly Father answers our prayer.
    How do you know what you believe in is true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    How do you know what you believe in is true?
    I think he/she "knows" it's true because Mormons have doctrines that when we pray, God either gives us a "burning of the bosom" if what we're praying about is true, on whatever level; if we experience a "stupor of thought", then that particular aspect is false or not worth your efforts.

    Personally, I've read most of the Book of Mormon, and I think God might be too violent there kind of like he is in the Bible, promoting us to fight wars against those opposed to him. He should allow for more freedom to follow alternative paths.

    Still, I have a theory that God "deliberately withheld" knowledge from the masses and only gave it in "secret Gnosis" to those who could handle it (like Hermes).

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  4. #44
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I think he/she "knows" it's true because Mormons have doctrines that when we pray, God either gives us a "burning of the bosom" if what we're praying about is true, on whatever level; if we experience a "stupor of thought", then that particular aspect is false or not worth your efforts.
    Dang. When will it be my turn for burning of the bosom. : (

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    Joseph Smith's quest for a sacred golden treasure buried in dark earth, his involvement with ceremonial magic, the angelic visitations, the pseudepigraphic texts he "translated", his declaration of Masonry as a remnant of priesthood, and his restoration of a Temple with its central mystery of a sacred wedding – all could be fitted into one very recently recognized context: Hermeticism.

    "There are but very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God," he began. "If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend their own character." Within humankind there is an immortal spark of intelligence, taught the Prophet, a seed of divine intellect or light which is "as immortal as, and coequal with, God Himself." God is not, however, to be understood as one and singular. Turning to Hebrew and an oddly Kabbalistic exegesis of the first three words of Genesis (an exegesis probably taken directly from the Zohar), Smith pronounced there are a multitude of Gods emanated from the First God, existing one above the other without end. He who humankind calls God was Himself once a man; and man, by advancing in intelligence, knowledge – consciousness – may be exalted with God, become as God.

    Occultism uses the Hermetic and Kabbalistic theory of creation and angelic/demonic forces, as a basis for ritual magic, and theurgy. Most magic theory involves the manipulation of Yetzirah, the world of Formation, and letting the effect trickle down to the physical universe (in accordance to the Hermetic concept of "as above, so below"). This includes the communication and manipulation of inhabitants of Yetzirah, angelic or demonic forces.

    Several Christian Gnostic sects saw the Cosmos were the product of an evil creator and thus evil itself, while Hermetists saw the Cosmos as a beautiful creation in the image of God.[26] Both view that mankind was originally divine and has become entrapped in the material world, a slave to passion and distracted from divine nature. However, the Gnostics often held a pessimistic view of mankind as a result while the Hermetic belief is generally positive towards mankind just the same.

  6. #46
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So which is it? Do Mormons believe in the trinity, or not? Some people say Catholics are not Christians, but they believe in the trinity, as well as the nicene creed. These definitions of Christian seem rather restrictive. To meet them, it is not enough to believe in Christ, one must believe in him and view him in a very specific way.

    Now my questions about Mormonism:

    1. Assuming the list of principles in the OP is correct, on what basis do Mormons even conduct missionary activity? As I alluded to in a previous post, that seems to contradict item 11.

    2. What does Mormonism teach is the source of divine knowledge? What is the role of the church as an institution vs. the individual believer in interpreting sacred writings?

    3. How are believers taught to resolve conflicts between church teachings and conscience?

    4. Not too long ago in the history of the Mormon church, polygamy and a view of separation of the races were both considered important doctrines. Has the church betrayed its own values by giving up these principles in order to fit into American society better? If they were so easily given up, how important were they to begin with?
    1. Anything we can do to respond to people's questions, insights, or anything else into introducing our doctrine can be considered as "missionary work" or the matter of wanting to give somebody that information (but doesn't go well enough unless you just wait to people ask questions by introducing very broad things like our website: mormon.org or handing them a copy of The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, or taking a tour of a church building, or a time when the Temple is about a little before dedicated or blessed there's an open house where you can look into every building inside. You might see young men or women wearing a name badge that say Elder or Sister (Last Name) that are called to preach the gospel and share it to everyone they can.

    2. Our source of divine knowledge is when we hear something from our prophets, seers, and revelators, we can ask God to know if this is true and we can feel by the Holy Spirit if this is right or not, sometimes the answer may not always come instantly, sometimes people get it instantly. We're not expected to believe everything at once, the Lord expects us to do our own research through the scriptures and teachings of others to do this.

    3. If you're probably feeling really bad about it, probably that's not right OR try to find a different source. As I say the best place to learn about any religion, institution, or any other affiliation IS that source. Go ask another Mormon friend to see if that is correct. Probably missionaries are the best source because that's what they're studying everyday (or should be.) Or ask me and I'll try my best to answer it if I can or try to find help from someone else or other sources!

    4. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1

    That website contains from the 4th President of our Church about what our stance on Polygamy was. Short answer: It's revelation and God only commands when it is right and not right to have Polygamy. Abraham was okay to have multiple wives but Solomon shouldn't. They are for very good reasons. And the whole separation of races thing, I don't understand? I guess some answer I could give is that Jesus was there to show himself to the Jews and his people and the Nephites/Lamanites (Book of Mormon people from the tribe of Manesseh, son of Joseph) and he told His apostles that it was now okay to preach to the gentiles. I don't understand that question very well.
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    By a broader definition that you present they could be included, but there is a lot more that the majority of Christendom has in common, primarily because it uses the Bible as the primary reference source for constructing its theology whereas Mormonism uses first the Book of Mormon and references the Bible as a secondary source. When in conflict, it is the Book of Mormon that is seen as the more reliable, clear source of truth.

    Joseph Smith was a Mason and also studied White Witchcraft, and he was also a science fiction writer from what I understand. A number of the temple rights and blessings are taken from these sources and the structure of the religion places humanity on the same level as God the Father and Christ and Satan (who are brothers), except that we are at an earlier stage in our development. God the Father was once a human on another planet (I think there are sources of early Joseph Smith writings that name it as "Koolag"). He lived up to his calling, married, and now has a planet of his own which is populated by the spirit children he has in Heaven with his wife. Humans procreate to make the vessels, and the spirits come down from Heaven, each one choosing which body they will inhabit. If an individual follows all the commands of the church, is married in the temple, then that union is set for all eternity and that Mormon man will one day be a god of his own planet populating it with the spirit children he has with his wife.

    In Biblical Christianity there are numerous interpretations and theology, but God is seen as sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, and humanity serves God. There is no eventual equality. That difference in the concept of God and man, along with the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon as the primary source of scripture is what creates a marked distinction.

    If there are any Mormons on the board that can point out any inaccuracies in my understanding, please do. It isn't my purpose to insult or communicate anything incorrect. This is my understanding of the religion based on discussions with Mormons, but I encountered the ideas as an outsider which is different from understanding it as an insider.
    Actually that none of what you said is doctrine, and is entirely speculation maybe from a member of our church on some part, so I don't know about most of what you're talking about, but I can see how it is extrapolated from what we teach. I don't know if this "Koolag" is in anyway related to the star/planet "Kolob" nearest to where God resides. All we know is that we can become like God if we do what is needed in this life (ordinances, having faith and repenting and doing what we can to do good with the grace of our Savior Jesus Christ to the best that we can) and perhaps we can do the same what God is doing now today. Other than that, you "might" guess that God underwent this but it's not official and only speculation. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Okay, that's cool we have someone with experience, knowledge, AND skepticism.

    Let's start with this: what's the purpose of "going to the temple" (for Mormons)?

    Also, why do some people "go to better kingdoms" than others?
    We go to the temple to do work for those who haven't received the ordinances of salvation such as being baptized and married. And no, we don't use dead people as proxy, we used gathered information that members give out of people out of their family history to be baptized with a temple worthy member who wants to baptize them as a proxy. Same thing happens for marriage. Giving everyone the chance to hear the gospel who haven't heard of it in this life. We believe a fair and just God would do that.

    So there are three kingdoms that after the final judgment we are to reside. (Note: Every single one of these are better than where we are right now) Jesus Christ mentioned to the many mansions of His Father which indicates that we can be sent to how well done we did with the talents we had here. The more we have, the more responsibility we have to use them for the good of us and others. The Celestial Kingdom is for those who are baptized and received all the ordinances necessary (they accepted them too, people have a choice to accept them or not if they haven't had the chance before this life) and served faithfully and stood for what was right in this life and repented of what we done wrong through the Savior's Atonement, they reside with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ with their eternal families as well as the Holy Ghost. The Terrestial Kingdom is for those who kind of did good but were tricked by the follies of men and did some dark works in their life, but nothing too bad and just didn't repent of it all if they had known the truth of it they're with Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost (Jesus likes to hop around and the Holy Ghost can only be in one spot in particular I guess, but His influence is everywhere). The telestial kingdom is pretty much for murderers, adulterers, theives, etc. any super bad person you name it who didn't really care about the gospel or any "good" thing in this life and knowingly did it all for their own selfishness practically and pretty much didn't care to repent about any of it haha and the Holy Ghost is just only there. Funny thing is, Mormon Hell is better than this world. Sooo even if you went down the dark road, judgment day wouldn't be too fun but God loves us all anyway. Celestial Kingdom is compared to the "sun", terrestial to the "moon", and telestial to the star "as if you were viewing it from Earth" The differences in light are incredible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    How do you know what you believe in is true?
    Pray about the Book of Mormon with real intent meaning that'll you will act on whatever you receive an answer from God after from reading some of it or all of it. Keep trying if you don't get an answer or look inside yourself on the doubts your having and try taking that away for that moment and open your mind to it. Other religions who anti us think that is our way to voodoo you into it. Which I don't see in any way how. In fact someone who is a member of our church used to be in another Christian faith and saw that that's the way we convert peoples.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Dang. When will it be my turn for burning of the bosom. : (
    Open your heart and your mind.

  7. #47
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    Anyone who rewards and punishes on the outlines of "doing exactly as he commands" with rigid meters placed on what's right or wrong needs to be looked at with very strong skepticism.

    I for one actually believe in God yes, but surely God is something much greater than our limited faiths depict he/she/it/all to be.

    He should ideally allow for the expansion of individuality and a uptopia than can include EVERYONE!

  8. #48
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Joseph Smith is not really a hermetic prophet. We can find truth in everyone religion, but we don't believe the fact that all religions are true in every way, wouldn't make sense haha. We do have a lot of eastern philosophy to show up in our Religion which is neat, and we're encouraged to learn about others religions too.

    Also, we are not commanded in everything we do either. Although we do have a lot to work at @RaptorWizard. So far, on the fact about the God we believe in seems like we're getting a lot more than the typical "Christian" God. Tell me more of what you'd imagine or what God should do or be.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Joseph Smith is not really a hermetic prophet. We can find truth in everyone religion, but we don't believe the fact that all religions are true in every way, wouldn't make sense haha. We do have a lot of eastern philosophy to show up in our Religion which is neat, and we're encouraged to learn about others religions too.

    Also, we are not commanded in everything we do either. Although we do have a lot to work at @RaptorWizard. So far, on the fact about the God we believe in seems like we're getting a lot more than the typical "Christian" God. Tell me more of what you'd imagine or what God should do or be.
    Here's some axioms I synthesized that systematically go into great detail about the meaning of "God".

    9. I am that I am. – This character is the personal God of love.
    10. Love is the one force. – Everything is part of love, which makes things possible.
    11. How should we pray to God? – With the force and feeling of our true character.
    12. What can God give us? – The complete potential for an endless future.
    13. What should we ask for when we pray to God? – To expand our awareness and vision of things (like seeing dreams or revealing secrets).
    14. Belief is at the center of our being. – This force (love) can give us anything and point the way to everything.
    15. The power of belief can “create entities”. – Opinions spring from a growing pool and can form any substance, making all things (even mental constructs) in some sense a reality.
    16. Reality is countered by destructive forces. – They seek to bring things into the void.
    17. Existence began with a witness. – The witness made everything possible with the “word” (logos [reason]; the “codes” of creation).
    18. The first thing created was love (no thing). – From this came the limitless and the witness (the force of love), which gave shape to everything out of the formless void.
    19. Reason is driven by love (the good). – This shows us beauty, which is relative to how we see it.
    20. Creation has 3 points. – They are existence, structure, and direction.
    21. Space (structure) and time (direction) make up 5 dimensions. – This is because existence itself is a dimension.
    22. The higher dimensions of creation (above the basic 5) are metaphysical. – We are stuck in the effects and cannot (at the physical level of existence) see the cause of it all.
    23. Knowledge gives us greater freedom. – It is the driving force that empowers mental constructs, which gives birth to life and love.
    24. Intention is the fruit of life. – It is what we want and the cause that creates it.
    25. Perfection can be found by following God. – God is the transcendent cause of creation, the designer of this “existential game” that can maximize our attributes and “level us up”.
    26. The logos are the language of reality. – They are the digital characters of the matrix.
    27. We are all avatars of God. – We should let him guide our actions without resistance.
    28. We will triumph with God on our side. – He can create possibilities for anything.
    29. The system of reality is dynamic. – Everything is always growing from the immaterialness of nothing to become the synthesized complex of everything.
    30. Mind controls the movement of life. – It is the action that feeds all reactions.
    31. The divine mind (God) is connected to everyone. – We are each multifaceted prisms that reflect the light of God, eternally expressing himself through our own true characters.

    source - http://raptorwizard.webstarts.com/axioms.html

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