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  1. #51
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    However you look at it extremes never work out, from one degree to another.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #52
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    This is utter nonsense. I lived in Norway for the best part of a year. I have no idea what you are talking about. Nor would Anders Breivik recognise your vision of that country. He waged a one man war on that nation's youth because he was disgusted by the tolerance of his own countrymen. Much like the OP.

    It's pretty funny to hear a Frenchman disparage other nations for having a superiority complex...
    Well, according to many surveys made in Western Europe, the two countries where people are the proudest of their nationality are (1) Norway, and (2) England.

    For us, mainland Europeans, those feelings remain a mistery since WWII.
    Because on the other hand, the countries where people didn't care much about their nationality were (1) Germany, and (2) France. Almost a third of Germans and French already first identify themselves as "Europeans" rather than "German" or "French".


    According to the experience I had in Norway everytime I travelled there, I'd say a lot of Norwegians are typically like the rednecks of Scandinavia, civilized rednecks who would enjoy healthcare and social democracy, and debating during hours about their inherent superiority compared to any other country on earth. And because they would debate with a smile and because they mean no harm, while I would not consider Norwegians to be xenophobic, it's just that this form of happy nationalism and quiet systematic self-satisfaction is sometimes quite tiring to hear and witness days after days, weeks after weeks.

    Texans are a bit like this, and it's not only because they too have oil...

    But I guess that, yes, there may have been a "after Breivik" effect. I should check the next time I go there.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #53
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    Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to eat for dinner. Freedom is a well-armed lamb.

    Benjamin Franklin

  4. #54
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Im trolling? Either you cannot read, didnt bother to, or dont understand.

    I know Lepen didnt make it past the primaries, however she had a disturbing nuumber of votes during those primaries. I think she was third in number of votes after Hollande and Sarkozy, and if it hadnt been for Sarkozy...
    If you hadn't Sarkozy, then Marine Le Pen would have been beaten in the second turn by an enormous margin, just like her father lost against Chirac (82.2%/17.8%). What else?

    Yes you are trolling, because your claims aren't realist enough, because they are a total mess and mix up facts.


    Your subtle accusations of me being NVA are pretty presumptous.
    I never said that. I only observed that the Flemish far-right was amongst the most powerful in Europe, and that it makes your commentary about Le Pen even odder and difficult to understand.

    Yeah, Im glad you're taking to attacking me personally, which paints YOU as the troll here.
    Technically, I didn't attack you. I strictly don't care who you are, and I'm not interested to know who you are.
    But yes, your ignorant and bigoted views about Le Pen and the Arab world bothered me more.




    No, its not all. People think this is all because populist theories have been hammered into our ears, but you fail to realize two things within the context of this thread that there are two problems or defects that keep many middle eastern countries from being "free". The first is keeping extremist parties out of the elections. This is important because if we do not, and they get elected they will suppress the next election. Hardly a "democratic" move. The second thing is social contract theory(Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau) which is what defines governments in the free world. Social cotract ensures our rights and protection from the government.
    Sometimes it's more complex than that. The politics and sociology of the Arab world are much more complex than this simplistic analysis, and full of surprises and paradoxes.


    No, thanks for living under a dictator, but, feel free to do so yourself, if it fills your need. They have flights to Saudi Arabia.
    I'm sure that travelling even a little bit won't do any harm to you.

    No, I dont have to live under a dictator to know about my freedoms, which I demonsrate my understanding of better than you.
    If you say so.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #55
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    If you hadn't Sarkozy, then Marine Le Pen would have been beaten in the second turn by an enormous margin, just like her father lost against Chirac (82.2%/17.8%). What else?
    The right were split between Sarkozy and Lepen, if one hadnt been there the other wouldve taken the other's voters. The left, on the other hand, were quiet united, and Hollande was the "best effort" the left could muster up, a united effort. If Sarkozy hadnt been there, all his votes would have gone to Lepen, who wouldve won not only the primaries but also the actual election. Also bear in mind Jean-Marie is not Marine, and Hollande is not Chirac.

    Yes you are trolling, because your claims aren't realist enough, because they are a total mess and mix up facts.
    I think it could be considered trolling only if I was doing this on purpose. If you feel Im getting my facts wrong, and this irks you, then correct me with better facts.




    I never said that. I only observed that the Flemish far-right was amongst the most powerful in Europe, and that it makes your commentary about Le Pen even odder and difficult to understand.
    Alright, well, I recogize that about the NVA, which is quiet bigoted, (though as you said there is worse) often gets alot of votes in Flanders. And this is a problem, while the Monarchy is strictly opposed to the NVA(as the NVA is anti-Monarchy), as are many Francophone Belgian politicians, such as DiRupo, there isnt a law that can stop them.

    Technically, I didn't attack you. I strictly don't care who you are, and I'm not interested to know who you are.
    But yes, your ignorant and bigoted views about Le Pen and the Arab world bothered me more.
    Ok, well, how were my views about Lepen ignorant and bigoted? Or my views regarding the Arab world, even if I do express negative sentiment, I would blame that on the portrait painted by mainstream media of the Arab World.

    Sometimes it's more complex than that. The politics and sociology of the Arab world are much more complex than this simplistic analysis, and full of surprises and paradoxes.
    Just to be sure, do you feel it is ok to permit extremist parties at elections? Also, do you feel social contract is important to our freedoms or is this not the root of our freedoms in the Western World? I realize the Western world is not the Arab World. But Im wondering how you at least understand the basis of our freedoms in the West.

  6. #56
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    The right were split between Sarkozy and Lepen, if one hadnt been there the other wouldve taken the other's voters. The left, on the other hand, were quiet united, and Hollande was the "best effort" the left could muster up, a united effort. If Sarkozy hadnt been there, all his votes would have gone to Lepen, who wouldve won not only the primaries but also the actual election. Also bear in mind Jean-Marie is not Marine, and Hollande is not Chirac.
    Total bullshit.

    The vast majority of the French republican right statistically never vote to the far-right.
    In every similar scenarii (during important mayoral elections for instance) they would have voted for the republican left.

    + You're forgetting the "centrist" voters, who are also quite important in France. They're the crown-makers, most of the time.

    It's obvious you don't know anything about French politics, so please, don't continue to argue if you don't know. It's just getting more and more ridiculous. Can I ask where are your informations coming from? What kind of newspapers or insane tabloid are you reading to jump at these odd conclusions?



    I think it could be considered trolling only if I was doing this on purpose. If you feel Im getting my facts wrong, and this irks you, then correct me with better facts.
    You've already been corrected several times. Yet your pride seem so huge you wouldn't acknowledge it.




    Alright, well, I recogize that about the NVA, which is quiet bigoted, (though as you said there is worse) often gets alot of votes in Flanders. And this is a problem, while the Monarchy is strictly opposed to the NVA(as the NVA is anti-Monarchy), as are many Francophone Belgian politicians, such as DiRupo, there isnt a law that can stop them.
    The question being: do you think Belgium will eventually survive? Does it have to?


    Ok, well, how were my views about Lepen ignorant and bigoted?
    They really are.

    Or my views regarding the Arab world, even if I do express negative sentiment, I would blame that on the portrait painted by mainstream media of the Arab World.
    Once again, it could be interesting for you to pay a visit there, even for a limited amount of time.
    You would surely be surprised how strong the civil society is in North Africa.

    Plus Moroccans are amongst the friendliest people on Earth.

    Moroccans who live outside Morocco, on the other hand, aren't often the best ambassadors of their native country.

    Just to be sure, do you feel it is ok to permit extremist parties at elections? Also, do you feel social contract is important to our freedoms or is this not the root of our freedoms in the Western World? I realize the Western world is not the Arab World. But Im wondering how you at least understand the basis of our freedoms in the West.
    For obvious reasons, I think the Arab democratic society is more Hobbesian than naively Rousseauist...

    They want a state of law, a genuine rule of law first. Inequalities, nepotism and corruption are their main issues.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #57
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Mystery solved. Seems OP had been eating monkey brainz.
    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues

  8. #58
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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  9. #59
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    OK. Done gloating now.

  10. #60
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Wait...

    Now, I'm done.

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