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  1. #21
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    The whole Arab Spring thing is a disaster, wars, chaos, Islamists and terrorist organizations taking over.
    What makes you think the Arab Spring was a disaster?

    I was there when it happened: it was incredible, and for those societies nothing will be the same after it. Islamists, on average seem far weaker than what it was despite some initial electoral successes... but it would seem they won't go very far, and now, their parties are mostly on the defensive, and deeply divided between democratic Islamism (similar to our Christian democrats) and totalitarian hard liners -the later being more and more isolated-.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #22
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Eurpe just doesn't need that strong moral and belief system as America need it...
    No, it usually has Muslims and Gypsies to bitch about. That's what seems to unite Europe.

    be honest... look what happend to you... Bush... really? Obama... not bad, but stil... You are about going to Syria? Oh...I thought so, you can't find oil in Egypt right?
    I'm pretty sure I could find you saying a month or two ago that "someone" (the U.S.) should intervene.

    Your idea of "moving past war" is probably begging for the U.S. to intervene in various conflicts, and then complaining about war-mongering when they actually do. I actually don't even have an opinion on Syria but the lack of consistency is grating.

    Oh, and complaining about U.S. immigration policy and how it treats Mexicans while complaining about Eurabia. And some shit about Gypsies too.

    People are assholes everywhere, even in Europe. God I hate patriotism, even the European variety.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #23
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    God I hate patriotism, even the European variety.
    1/ God doesn't exist

    2/ I hate generalizations, even generalizations directed against patriotism (which is another form of generalization and clichés)
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    1/ God doesn't exist

    2/ I hate generalizations, even generalizations directed against patriotism (which is another form of generalization and clichés)
    Well, it's not like patriotism gave us wars that the whole world was involved with or anything. It's just harmless waving of strips of fabric around. Totally harmless.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #25
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Well, it's not like patriotism gave us wars that the whole world was involved with or anything. It's just harmless waving of strips of fabric around. Totally harmless.
    It makes me remember that the sheer number of American flags we see on display everywhere (even on private houses) when we come to visit you often scare the Europeans we are... For us, it's a pretty terrifying show.

    It's two different cultural traditions, as it seems... At least, it is still legal even in the US to burn those damn patriotic flags (only when you own them, of course). They make great BBQ firestarters.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #26
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It makes me remember that the sheer number of American flags we see on display everywhere (even on private houses) when we come to visit you often scare the Europeans we are... For us, it's a pretty terrifying show.
    It really wasn't that over the top before 9/11. They were really only omnipresent on national holidays (WHICH WOULD BE FINE). Government buildings might have had them or individual homes, but you wouldn't see them outside of convenience stores so the owners could prove they weren't terrorists or something, or in other weird, random places.

    It's two different cultural traditions, as it seems... At least, it is still legal even in the US to burn those damn patriotic flags (only when you own them, of course). They make great BBQ firestarters.
    LOL.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  7. #27
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    What I mean is that in France, somebody who would openly display a French flag in front of his house would be considered a dangerous would-be fascist/extremist/lunatic, a threat to the neighbourhood. Now, imagine our reaction when we discover the streets of your suburbs...

    And I guess it's the same in most Western Europe, with the notable exception of Norway. But precisely, Norwegian blind nationalism is considered scary by most foreign European visitors. It is something the vast majority of us does not understand.

    In Europe, because of our history of violence and continuous wars, you have to understand that patriotism is often associated with chauvinism, hooliganism, intolerance and xenophobia.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    No, it usually has Muslims and Gypsies to bitch about. That's what seems to unite Europe.



    I'm pretty sure I could find you saying a month or two ago that "someone" (the U.S.) should intervene.

    Your idea of "moving past war" is probably begging for the U.S. to intervene in various conflicts, and then complaining about war-mongering when they actually do. I actually don't even have an opinion on Syria but the lack of consistency is grating.

    Oh, and complaining about U.S. immigration policy and how it treats Mexicans while complaining about Eurabia. And some shit about Gypsies too.

    People are assholes everywhere, even in Europe. God I hate patriotism, even the European variety.
    I meant more like religion, or ethics. Yeah really you can't blame europeans for how we treat gypsies, or muslims. I have nothing against muslisms, they don't even live in our country, France has something against them and I disagree with how they try to supress ther religion, beliefs, probihites them to observe their traditions. This is just so wrong, and goes against every humanitarian idea, that has ever been born in Europe. On the other hand, I can understand why France did, what they did. I am not saying it's right, I just say I can understand why an independent country where muslisms started to occupy more and more jobs, schools, started to push their bielf system at the expense of native born French, it's logical that the country stands to side of their own people. Yeah it is patriotism, it is holding us back from seeing all the possibilities, that would came out from cooperations with other nations. It is bad, it is a huge stap back that holding us from progress and the final unity... I didn't try to be patriotic, I just tried to explain prejudices and misunderstandings, with whom the first post was full of. To imigracy issues... yeah you know it sucks. You have your own country, 500 milion people, that need jobs, food, money, living and suddenly other 200 milion people came here and they need the same things, but you even suffer to provide living and food for that 500 milion... So what will you do? You try to protect you own people... That's just how it goes. Any other reasons why to treat immigrants bad called rasism... it exists... in Europe, in U.S, in Africa... It exists all over the world even though we try so hard not to... After all, we just close our eyes and say... Everything is fine, we can't that people are rasists, we love each other... even though everyone knows it is a bullshit...

  9. #29
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Democracy was fine in America, but not in Europe or the Middle East
    So move to America, where idiocy is appreciated.

  10. #30
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    What makes you think the Arab Spring was a disaster?

    Becauase countries like Iraq, Egypt, and Syria are all ravaged by war and their politcal landscape is a total mess. True, you can argue that in the long term it may pay off and the politcal landscape will stabilize, maybe, but whos to say it will, and if it does how long will it take.

    You know what I think? That its not democracy itself that brings people a better life, its cultured leaders who can bring life to an otherwise dead poltical system. Political systems are just that, systems. In and of themselves they have no value. Its only the right people that can give them value and make them work, otherwise they dont.

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