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View Poll Results: Does God want what's best for all?

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  1. #1
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    Default Does God want what's best for all?

    When we gaze upon our world, it's clear that it's all corrupted! Even in our various religious texts across earth, God speaks to us of great torment and suffering that shall fall upon those who fail to walk in his ways. Some would argue that all of this evil refines us for the higher realms of existence, but perhaps even if it does, the process of getting there doesn't seem best for all!

  2. #2
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I'd say 'God' is referred to, and felt, differently by different people,

    therefore you shall get a vast array of answers to this question.

    Personally if there is 'God' i doubt importance lays in good/evil so much... maybe equilibrium. I have a more ethereal idea of 'God' anyway... it veers away from the traditional implied version; the white cloaked testosterone fueled pinnacle of judgement. The version I prefer is more airy, does not have a gender (or implied gender)... hard to explain but I am not certain of any of this anyway... more an attachment to a romantic notion.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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    @HelenOfTroy I agree that God, the greatest Force in the universe may transcend what we would think of as a person or a general living being. I do however think that God could be a supermind, an integral field of awareness and power that can see everything and move all events into causation.

    As for the lower gods (the ones that might be more like people), I believe that they are very much available for contact, but not in a direct sense. It's more like they're somewhere distant from us and our continuum, but they can listen to those who pray or walk the higher paths and give back returns.

    God and the gods (good, evil, neutral) seem to have settled for a contract where they are spiritual factors in human development, but don't take visible action. They instead seem to be watching us and perhaps even guiding those who seek them, want us to reach the divine levels within our own platforms.

    The ones on the dark side could be seeking to cause us damamge. There could also be good ones that truly wish what's best for all.

    If we're talking about the director of the universe, then that god most certainly is content with causing all life everywhere much suffering. This could be the evil Gnostic demiurge, a god who may have hacked the universal supercomputer and corrupted our program.

    What I really don't know is if the greatest God of all (the living Force of Creation) is truly benign in the most loving way.

  4. #4
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    RW, it is ambiguous whether you take God (or Gods) as a metaphorical or literal entity. Do you believe that God exists in reality, in a form that couldn't be better described as simply a mechanic of the universe, or indeed, the universe itself? That's my problem with pantheism - why call the universe "God", when one could simply say "the universe", except for poetic purposes? Why bother at all?

    Which God do we talk about? They all have different personalities. Perhaps we talk about the concept itself.

    If we are to talk about the concept, I'll talk about my beliefs (very appropriate term here...). God is basically a human with superpowers. It has the attributes a human has, just blown up to perfection - evolutionary perfection. A manifestation of what the perfect human would be; all-knowing, all-controlling, all-powerful. That's what we all want, right? Life wants to rise above everything else.

    So, going by that, the answer to the original question, "does God want what's best for us?", then that is really, "do we want what's best for us?", that answer to which is mostly yes. It is how we have survived for so long. By being socially connected. There is "evil" in every species.

    Now on the subject of if God actually exists in itself. "Best" is subjective and may be a human-exclusive concept. Why would a God, that created the entire universe - and all the other life-forms within it, with their own concepts - go by such subjective values? "Best" isn't even objective relative to other humans.

    Same with "good" and "evil". What are they really? "Good" is just change we approve of. "Evil" is change we dislike. Both of which apply to change created by other humans. The universe is just a ball of constant fluctuations. That's probably how a God would see it primarily. "Good" happened - a fluctuation. "Evil" happened - another fluctuation. It's all change, that is all. So what if humans become extinct? It would be like flicking some atoms off a piece of dust.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    When we gaze upon our world, it's clear that it's all corrupted!
    No it is not, it's just in a particular form that humans dislike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    RW, it is ambiguous whether you take God (or Gods) as a metaphorical or literal entity. Do you believe that God exists in reality, in a form that couldn't be better described as simply a mechanic of the universe, or indeed, the universe itself? That's my problem with pantheism - why call the universe "God", when one could simply say "the universe", except for poetic purposes? Why bother at all?
    I really don't know what to think. I guess that God (or gods) can be seen at many levels. I do however see them quite literally. I equate God as a programmer that imagined up our universe. I equate the gods with beings much more powerful than us. God the metaphor could perhaps be the laws of our program and the changes they create.

    Which God do we talk about? They all have different personalities. Perhaps we talk about the concept itself.
    This is a good point. Each god would likely be different. Maybe then what qualifies one as a god would be a better reference frame.

    If we are to talk about the concept, I'll talk about my beliefs (very appropriate term here...). God is basically a human with superpowers. It has the attributes a human has, just blown up to perfection - evolutionary perfection. A manifestation of what the perfect human would be; all-knowing, all-controlling, all-powerful. That's what we all want, right? Life wants to rise above everything else.
    Yes, I agree. Our ultimate goal you could say is to transcend everything and become a god.

    So, going by that, the answer to the original question, "does God want what's best for us?", then that is really, "do we want what's best for us?", that answer to which is mostly yes. It is how we have survived for so long. By being socially connected. There is "evil" in every species.
    I wasn't thinking along these lines originally, but it makes sense that God could be a best possible good for all of us to realize.

    Now on the subject of if God actually exists in itself. "Best" is subjective and may be a human-exclusive concept. Why would a God, that created the entire universe - and all the other life-forms within it, with their own concepts - go by such subjective values? "Best" isn't even objective relative to other humans.
    Here I disagree. Sure, we humans are very tiny, but that doesn't mean God should be indifferent to our pains and pleasures. We're just as much a part of this cosmic symphony as everything else in existence, and values help to give meaning to it all.

    Same with "good" and "evil". What are they really? "Good" is just change we approve of. "Evil" is change we dislike. Both of which apply to change created by other humans. The universe is just a ball of constant fluctuations. That's probably how a God would see it primarily. "Good" happened - a fluctuation. "Evil" happened - another fluctuation. It's all change, that is all. So what if humans become extinct? It would be like flicking some atoms off a piece of dust.
    It's entirely subjective as you say. I'm feeling though as if you're equating subjective with bad, and objective with good. When we see changes in relation to our previous experiences, it can help to give us a better understanding of these things. Surely the interplay of good and bad for example gives greater diversity to our world and more room for growth.

    No it is not, it's just in a particular form that humans dislike.
    For the overall universe, I believe you're right, but that doesn't mean we need to see ourselves as a big nobody. I am that I am.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I really don't know what to think. I guess that God (or gods) can be seen at many levels. I do however see them quite literally. I equate God as a programmer that imagined up our universe. I equate the gods with beings much more powerful than us. God the metaphor could perhaps be the laws of our program and the changes they create.
    Interesting. So what do you think God is like? Is it a life-form... some sort of force? Are you religious at all, then?

    Here I disagree. Sure, we humans are very tiny, but that doesn't mean God should be indifferent to our pains and pleasures. We're just as much a part of this cosmic symphony as everything else in existence, and values help to give meaning to it all.
    I guess this is something no-one can answer. God may care. But "caring" is just applying anthropomorphic traits to God again. Life is created through a chemical process within the universe, the nucleus of which, after sufficient advancement, has the ability to be aware of itself and the surroundings. I highlight "within the universe", because if God created the universe, and is thus "outside" of it, why apply things that happen inside, to the outside? If God is conscious as we know it, and able to care, does that mean God is also made of matter? That would be paradoxical.

    It's entirely subjective as you say. I'm feeling though as if you're equating subjective with bad, and objective with good. When we see changes in relation to our previous experiences, it can help to give us a better understanding of these things. Surely the interplay of good and bad for example gives greater diversity to our world and more room for growth.
    No, subjective isn't bad. It just means that it isn't applicable to anything other than ourselves. It's true, we do need what we consider "bad". It may even be a greater catalyst than "good".

    For the overall universe, I believe you're right, but that doesn't mean we need to see ourselves as a big nobody. I am that I am.
    Of course we aren't nobodies - we exist; therefore we affect. All I'm saying is that if we were to vanish from the universe right now, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. We have to make ourselves matter, we don't need God.

  7. #7
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    Does God want what's best for all?
    Hypothetically speaking, in case he does want, he's not almighty.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, in case he does want, he's not almighty.
    Lolz said the same thing on PerC.

    He is either an unconcerned sociopath or he isn't as mighty as some claim him to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Interesting. So what do you think God is like? Is it a life-form... some sort of force? Are you religious at all, then?
    I think God is beyond our understanding. I would say he's alive, since he would have a mind, and also be a force, since a mind has a will. I'm religious in the sense that I believe in powers above ourselves that may have parts in the overall creation of various existential realms.

    I guess this is something no-one can answer. God may care. But "caring" is just applying anthropomorphic traits to God again. Life is created through a chemical process within the universe, the nucleus of which, after sufficient advancement, has the ability to be aware of itself and the surroundings. I highlight "within the universe", because if God created the universe, and is thus "outside" of it, why apply things that happen inside, to the outside? If God is conscious as we know it, and able to care, does that mean God is also made of matter? That would be paradoxical.
    I once heard Stephen Hawking say, "Anything that happened before the Big Bang could not effect what happened after." Through processes we can rationalize, the universe has indeed made itself alive and aware of itself from within. There could also though be things that are aware of it from beyond.

    No, subjective isn't bad. It just means that it isn't applicable to anything other than ourselves. It's true, we do need what we consider "bad". It may even be a greater catalyst than "good".
    I'm very much aware of the argument that the bad things in life can help us to grow more. This may go down to biblical metaphors like the garden of Eden and how knowledge comes at the price of suffering. God's contract seems to involve this consequence.

    Of course we aren't nobodies - we exist; therefore we affect. All I'm saying is that if we were to vanish from the universe right now, it wouldn't matter in the slightest. We have to make ourselves matter, we don't need God.
    It would matter to us far more than to the universe, but it would still have significance for ourselves, even if not for everything else as a whole. With the right God(s) on our side, perhaps we could develop better. The door can be opened to us, we just have to walk through.

  10. #10
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    I don't believe in God in a way that I can answer this. I believe that whatever power may be is essentially "good" in a way that goes beyond good/evil dichotomy - that it is content, wholesome, balanced, full, etc. That it is not something that needs to be regretted or opposed. That even though me or you or other living beings or forms may not desire the current state of things, ultimately everything is OK.

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