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  1. #1
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Default Assessing self-honesty

    Typology and other forms of self-exploration require a good amount of honesty with self. I know it's easier for some more than others, but what do you to keep your self-honesty in check?

    It's a different but related idea to self-objectivism, which I believe is even harder. But again, I could see how that might be easier for some.

    Just looking for some strategies or insights or discussion or whatever.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

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    Honesty I think is a very hard quality to completely live up to. I'm actually more for the idea of integrity, which can integrate honesty, but it can also include qualities like a system of ethics, moral character, the holistic state of being, and so forth.

    I take somewhat of a rationalist view, and say that honesty within ourselves, or general clarity of vision in general needs to be devoid of personal poisons (things that damage or delude us if we can't let go of them).

    To me, it's very much like how Yoda in Star Wars is completely for the sharing of compassion amongst sentient life forms and connection with great living energy fields (Force), but he also says how we need to clear our minds, to be able to unlearn what's restricting us.

    We must unlock that higher mental balance, come to center ourselves with it all.

  3. #3
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Typology and other forms of self-exploration require a good amount of honesty with self. I know it's easier for some more than others, but what do you to keep your self-honesty in check?

    It's a different but related idea to self-objectivism, which I believe is even harder. But again, I could see how that might be easier for some.

    Just looking for some strategies or insights or discussion or whatever.
    Quick clarification question (sorry my J-ness is showing): the question is how do you know you're being honest with yourself or encourage yourself to be honest with yourself?
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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Make some enemies, for they will point out what your friends won't, thus helping you come up with a unbiased perspective.

    Actually, don't do that, lol, there must be an easier way.
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  5. #5
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    Related to this thread, yesterday I realized that suspending disbelief is the opposite of confirmation bias. I believe that suspending disbelief corresponds to being honest with yourself, whereas confirmation bias corresponds to being locked into your present view of yourself or avoiding thinking objectively about yourself. We have to strike a balance between the two otherwise we might go crazy.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Make some enemies, for they will point out what your friends won't, thus helping you come up with a unbiased perspective.

    Actually, don't do that, lol, there must be an easier way.
    There is usually honesty in anger or annoyance even as friends (even if the person seems to be "overreacting"... if you can read through the emotional noise, there are elements of truth... unless, of course, the person is just consistently "batshit crazy" most of the time) and sometimes drunkenness. Plus, a lot of jokes have some basis in reality but usually are an exaggeration of sorts (and that's one of the reasons why some people "can't take" jokes).

  7. #7
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    For me the hardest part seems like seeing what I'm naturally blind to, so I have to keep my mind open that maybe the way I idealize myself isn't a complete picture, and because I tend to base my conceptions of other things in comparison with myself (eg, "Enneagram 1s are more rigid than me"), I have to be willing to realize that my whole understanding of the system might need to be shifted. Like I thought I was INFP for a long time, and didn't even consider ENFP because I considered myself introverted, and I compared myself to other people who I thought were extraverted and thought there was no way I was like them. Or with the Enneagram, I was so used to thinking of myself as first very excitable and enthusiastic, then as an artistic type and an overachiever, so I first thought I was a 7, then a 4, then a 3. It took me forever to look at 6 because it seemed so unlike me, but again I had to shift my understanding. I think @mingularity's phrase "suspension of disbelief" is a good one. It's being willing to not write off possibilities even though they don't seem right. You'd think an ENFP should be good at that, but Fi idealization gets in the way.

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    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    In my experience, the keys to self-honesty are (a) ego being kept in check and (b) cost-benefit analysis: be honest with myself now and experience pain now but less pain in the long run OR lie to myself and get immediate relief but inevitably experience more pain in the long run.

    There's also the opposite problem, though, where you're too in touch with yourself and you overblow your problems or weaknesses. It's all about trying to be moderate both ways. I've definitely fallen both ways on the scale at different points in my life.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
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  9. #9
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Where do I start?

    Essentially I hound myself mercilessly day and night, inspecting every atom of my actions, thoughts and beliefs; past, present and potentially future. When others criticise me, there may be times I take it blindly and become irritated, but often I internalise it and try to understand why, what it means and whether it brings to light something I have missed.

    Sometimes I might be the opposite end of the delusion spectrum in that I assume the worst automatically about myself, but I have arrogance and pride as well.

    Honesty is a horrific battle for me since my natural state is to lie, withhold and deceive. It's like a personal penance on my part, that I subject myself to willful divulgence of information.

    Part of it is to make people understand that they see me as I project myself and as they project off each other and themselves, so I don't want them to idealise me, I dislike being told I am something positive that I know in truth I do not possess. Although occasionally they speak true and this is a different kind of blind spot which I miss.

    At the heart of it is an ideal, an ideal of honesty as a concept, that our naturally contradictory nature should be exposed and in doing so....we grow as a people. When we learn that the laughter of the crowd need not hurt, we become more of ourselves.

    It's that but turned individually.

    However I am still steeped in deception even so.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    I try to give myself quite a bit of alone time so that I can think about questions like
    why am i doing (x)?
    what am I hoping to achieve?
    Why am i avoiding (x)?
    What do I not want people to know about me?
    What upsets or makes me happy, why?
    I also ask for alot of perspectives from people that I trust. Not people that will make me feel good, but people who's judgement seems more objective than my own.
    I try to remember that everyone has blind spots and that I will always have blind spots. This is human. The desire to even be aware of these blind spots is probably the basic structures one needs to get the self-honesty wheel a rollin.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

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