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  1. #21
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dufflepud View Post
    Honestly, my take on it is this - belief is not a choice. Worshipping, praying, following the tenants of a religion, etc. are choices, but actually BELIEVING something is entirely involuntary. I, personally, could never believe in a god unless one were irrefutably (given the knowledge we posses at the time) proven to exist. I'd love to go into the details of my beliefs as an atheist (although, I'd like to believe, rather unlike the type that you're "fed up with"), but my point is simply that you shouldn't convert to this girl's religion simply to be with her - only do so if you are capable of actually believing in it. I would ask her if she is willing to persue a relationship with someone who won't convert.

    Regardless of what you believe, and at the risk of sounding somewhat cheesy, I hope that you find happiness.
    I think you're right about belief not really being a choice and on that note, if I'm being honest, the only belief I'm sure of is that I don't believe in coincidence. Whether that translates to a pantheistic, cosmic-order view or a theist view I don't know. What I do know is that I'm tired of being pissed off at the world due to a bunch of disappointment, most of which were not and are not in my power to change. And being a E9 I'm even more tired of bottling up all that anger and trying to show a calm facade. So I'll try something new and see where it takes me.

  2. #22
    Junior Member Dufflepud's Avatar
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    I just thought I'd point out that pantheism is not a vague religious view - it's literally the belief in multiple defined gods, or a "pantheon." I'm sorry if I'm just reading into your post the wrong way, but your placing of emphasis on the difference between "theism" and "pantheism" leads me to believe that you've got your terms a bit mixed up, as pantheism is a more specific form of theism.

    Ultimately, it is my personal belief that you shouldn't ascribe to a religon, and I'd happily explain why in the most respectful way possible, but I take it that's not what your looking for.

    Good luck, man!
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dufflepud View Post
    I just thought I'd point out that pantheism is not a vague religious view - it's literally the belief in multiple defined gods, or a "pantheon." I'm sorry if I'm just reading into your post the wrong way, but your placing emphasis on the difference between "theism" and "pantheism" leads me to believe that you've got your terms a bit mixed up, as pantheism is a more specific form of theism.

    Ultimately, it is my personal belief that you shouldn't ascribe to a religon, and I'd happily explain why in the most respectful way possible, but I take it that's not what your looking for.

    Good luck, man!
    Yeah I don't know I found that word here http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/ and thought it fit. And by all means, I'm interested in any perspective. Though I don't deem my current perspective to be religion as I have no interest in any organization but perhaps spiritual, yes (that's all just word-choice though anyways).

  4. #24
    Junior Member Dufflepud's Avatar
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    Oh, actually, I take that back. That's polytheism. My history teacher has lead me astray... >.>

    I'll PM you my perspective tomorrow xP.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    Are you happy/fulfilled/satisfied/at peace? How?

    Why do I ask? I used to be devout mormon. went on a mission and the whole nine yards, but during my mission I was miserable. I didn;t mind Argie-land. Argentines are actually great people but the mission and the missionary "companions" sucked. I hated it and came to the conclusion that either god didnt give a shit about me or didn;t exist. Either way no reason to keep on serving such a being.
    Fast-forward two years later I'm a 24 yr old recent college grad that fancies himself a deist/pantheist (after having a falling out/getting fed up with the know-it-all atheist), meets a girl that's a nondenominational christian. She's the happiest person I've ever known and she attributes this to Jesus. But here understanding of Jesus is quite different then mine. At any rate I start reading the bible again and this is what I find:
    "For where your treasure is, there your heart is also." (Matthew 6:21 in KJV). This is after her telling me that Jesus "wants my heart" not two years in a foreign country or ten percent of my pay check, etc.

    What I lnog for most though is conpanionship. what's so rong about that/ If Jesus gave a damn where was he during fmy mish? why should i want him more than a companion? and even then how would I even do that?

    p.s. i'm drunk so fuck typos hooray fr honey jack
    brace yourself for blunt honesty.

    you're a mormon, and in the eyes of christians, mormonism is a cult. So chances are god isn't really interested in helping you. God wrote the bible, and that is the only thing you should listen to.

    I believe in jesus, and have placed my faith in his hands. He put me into the US naval academy to teach me in a safe environment how much people suck and what not to do with my life, he then placed me in arizona with a churchgroup where my socionics conflictor (one of my best friends) taught me what its like to live a life of being broke but having everything you need with everyone else. Moved to tears, my disdain for the navy grew and I felt trapped in the navy. I was to legally serve 10 years in what I considered to be prison. A week after arriving at flight school and witnessing a lifestyle I have no intention of leading, god presented me with a window of opportunity. Flight school was letting commissioned officers become civilians. I packed my bags, and moved to colorado, where I found a home 3 days later and my landlord gave me a job making 3k a month, where i met many good friends. A year later I now have dozens of friends who came to ME, and I am the owner of a Parkour Gym.

    Whether or not the gym succeeds, all I can do, is do my best, and do everything in my power to see that it succeeds. God is directing my life in a way that I don't fully understand. Either he has a plan for me, or he wants me to dump that 30 grand I was holding onto, watch the gym fail, and place me into the lifestyle more conducive to my happiness (which I already have planned out).

    As I said before, I do the best that I can. Whether I fail or succeed isn't under my control, and isn't something I need to worry about. I ask god for wisdom and faith that he will provide to me what I need, not necessarily what I want.

    Abstaining from caffeine and deoderant doesn't get you into heaven. Doing drugs doesn't send you to hell. Sex before marriage is extremely unwise and pigs are disgusting animals without modern technology to cleanse them of parasites and bacteria for human consumption. Follow the ten commandments and allow god to reveal his plan for you, and you will begin to see it. If you never offer him this chance, you will continue to live life unaware of such a plan.

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    Thank you for this, and yes what you've said does resonate with me. I actually already had another chat with her and, after receiving a figurative slap in the face when I realized how selfish my thinking had been, I decided to follow the advice of Viktor Frankl, "happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself... I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge."
    I'm totally on board with this, too. I've been in sort of a down spot for a while and the way out really seems to be to stop worrying about yourself and your personal happiness so much and to focus on what you really care about in life, and how to get your life aligned with what you really care about. It can be really hard given life patterns we tend to fall into but it's also really wonderful. Happiness seems to just fall in place once you're doing what you really care about doing.

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