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  1. #31
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    well, i don't know. create a god, tell people to worship it otherwise they go to hell, create sacred book full of rules to follow and punishments if you dont, start holy wars with whoever does not believe in your god, serve as an excuse for economic and imperialistic expansions... well, unity of course!

  2. #32
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    well, i don't know. create a god, tell people to worship it otherwise they go to hell, create sacred book full of rules to follow and punishments if you dont, start holy wars with whoever does not believe in your god, serve as an excuse for economic and imperialistic expansions... well, unity of course!
    Very true…
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    well, i don't know. create a god, tell people to worship it otherwise they go to hell, create sacred book full of rules to follow and punishments if you dont, start holy wars with whoever does not believe in your god, serve as an excuse for economic and imperialistic expansions... well, unity of course!
    well, sort of hypothetical - like any conversation about unity without an us vs. them factor would be - but if an imperialistic entity ever succeeded in actually conquering the world, wouldn't the world stand united? wouldn't that be the most likely scenario leading up to it? over the last century we've found that any attempt to create a global alliance has had too many conflicting interests to gain upholding power as an entity, and we've also found that no aliens cared to come closer and declare themselves after hearing the war of the worlds radio transmission (or i love lucy for that matter)... short of a natural collapse of current governments, imperialism seems to be the only avenue left.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    well, i don't know. create a god, tell people to worship it otherwise they go to hell, create sacred book full of rules to follow and punishments if you dont, start holy wars with whoever does not believe in your god, serve as an excuse for economic and imperialistic expansions... well, unity of course!


    Wait? Are you serious?!



    See, I dont see a lot of people doing this, doesnt seem that plausible at all and so I dont think people in the past, being at least as clever as we are today and probably much more so since they didnt have half of the distraction, consumerism or cultural distortion as we do today, would've bought it either.

    Although, you know what I do see a lot of? People whipping people up into a frenzy about "them", they're so wicked, lets get "them" and teach them a lesson.

    What does that sound like?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    well, sort of hypothetical - like any conversation about unity without an us vs. them factor would be - but if an imperialistic entity ever succeeded in actually conquering the world, wouldn't the world stand united? wouldn't that be the most likely scenario leading up to it? over the last century we've found that any attempt to create a global alliance has had too many conflicting interests to gain upholding power as an entity, and we've also found that no aliens cared to come closer and declare themselves after hearing the war of the worlds radio transmission (or i love lucy for that matter)... short of a natural collapse of current governments, imperialism seems to be the only avenue left.
    There's never been an us vs. them ideology in world history which didnt start to destroy itself before got within a million miles of its goal of eliminating "them", the greatest examples you could care to mention nazism, communism, political islam, they all engage in as vehemently self-destructive measures as they do in attacks on the external "other".

    Personally I think its because "they", "them", "the other" is ultimately a product of their own minds and there's even a possibility they know that so the possibility that the "other" might disapper is pretty terrifying, if you want a much more moderate but good example of the same thing consider the Bush years before 9/11 when he talked about things being harder than in his father's day because he had no idea who "they" where.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's never been an us vs. them ideology in world history which didnt start to destroy itself before got within a million miles of its goal of eliminating "them", the greatest examples you could care to mention nazism, communism, political islam, they all engage in as vehemently self-destructive measures as they do in attacks on the external "other".

    Personally I think its because "they", "them", "the other" is ultimately a product of their own minds and there's even a possibility they know that so the possibility that the "other" might disapper is pretty terrifying, if you want a much more moderate but good example of the same thing consider the Bush years before 9/11 when he talked about things being harder than in his father's day because he had no idea who "they" where.
    but there's a reason for that - over the course of acquiring more territory to keep under control, you loose people to control it with, your armies spread thinner, lower ranking officers have less social scrutiny around them and are increasingly met with unrealistic logistical requirements - not only encouraging but essentially demanding internal corruption for the basics of survival, which demands more and more internal policing for a functional society, which increases the paranoia and mistrust within society.

    today, we are facing an increasingly unmanned arsenal where the cost of conquest can be counted in dollars rather then soldiers, with an increasing capacity to maintain a larger army with fewer soldiers and fewer officers. we are approaching a tipping point where imperialism becomes.. economical.

  7. #37
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    There's a difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason - there's also metaphysics, which is based on reality, experience, and perception.

  8. #38
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    Organized religions, particularly "fundamentalist" ones... create major conflict.

  9. #39
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's never been an us vs. them ideology in world history which didnt start to destroy itself before got within a million miles of its goal of eliminating "them", the greatest examples you could care to mention nazism, communism, political islam, they all engage in as vehemently self-destructive measures as they do in attacks on the external "other".
    Why didn't you mention catholicism as well in all your examples, since it is perhaps the greatest and most obvious of all? This particular religion has the longest known history of "eliminating them" and "self-destructing measures", as you call them

    I'm wondering.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Why didn't you mention catholicism as well in all your examples, since it is perhaps the greatest and most obvious of all? This particular religion has the longest known history of "eliminating them" and "self-destructing measures", as you call them

    I'm wondering.
    You come back to the forum after all this time and waste your post posting to me who has you ignore? Really?

    And I am expected to believe that your thinking and actions are guided by reason? Please...

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