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  1. #21
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I have another problem if someone wants of speculate.

    I have come to conclusion that time travelling could be in direct conflict with christianity.

    Problem

    You go 200 years back and help another person to have a happy life instead of commiting many crimes.
    But the problem is that the soul of that person is already in hell.
    So when that person dies what will happen. Will the soul be moved in heaven or duplicate will be made so that it can be on both places what makes sense because that soul lived good and bad life.

    I can complicate even further but this is enough for now.

  2. #22
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I have another problem if someone wants of speculate.

    I have come to conclusion that time travelling could be in direct conflict with christianity.

    Problem

    You go 200 years back and help another person to have a happy life instead of commiting many crimes.
    But the problem is that the soul of that person is already in hell.
    So when that person dies what will happen. Will the soul be moved in heaven or duplicate will be made so that it can be on both places what makes sense because that soul lived good and bad life.

    I can complicate even further but this is enough for now.

    I believe heaven and hell are metaphorical and not literal. They are symbols for the spiritual/mental/emotional state.
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  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    The belief that we even have bodies based on the data we receive from the senses is itself a philosophical construct.

    I would say the evidence for a mind, (i.e., a soul), is much harder than the evidence for the existence of any material bodies; for material existence is itself an abstraction to which we appeal to in order to explain the more immediate phenomena of our mental states: our knowledge of mental existence is more immediate, and therefore more certain, than our knowledge of material existence. Without knowlege of the mental, we could have no knowledge of the material.
    Hmm, true. Not practical in terms of living daily life, but true from a philosophical standpoint.

    And we've all heard the example of basically how the brain is in a box -- the skull, literally -- and gets all input from the wires running out from it, so if the input to the wires can be fooled/changed, the brain would believe what it was told if it seemed consistent.

    All we can be aware of is in the internal mental state... although our awareness and language -- the tangibles of our consciousness -- are based on the constructs/language we learned through those pathways. So it's sort of odd to say our mental state exists separately, when the fact we are conscious and can "talk to ourselves" and evaluate input itself is built partly on those streams of data we've assumed were true. Doesn't mean it's not true, it just seems rather ironic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I have another problem if someone wants of speculate.

    I have come to conclusion that time travelling could be in direct conflict with christianity.You go 200 years back and help another person to have a happy life instead of commiting many crimes. ..
    Why stop there?

    Let's get a team together and go back and save Jesus!

    (talk about REALLY mucking up a predominant faith system.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Christianity is absolute when it comes to salvation or damnation. Besides, I thought souls are only eternally damned come Judgment Day, which occurs at the end of the timeline.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

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  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    Christianity is absolute when it comes to salvation or damnation. Besides, I thought souls are only eternally damned come Judgment Day, which occurs at the end of the timeline.
    Technically, you're right -- that's the "final" punishment. But the convention for conservative Christians generally is that once you're dead, you can't change where you're going. So really you're just sitting around in stir, waiting for the eternal damnation.. and you have "Tinder" stamped on your forehead.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Good grief, how can anyone "Go" anywhere? It's a metaphor.
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  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Good grief, how can anyone "Go" anywhere? It's a metaphor.
    Define "go."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Good grief, how can anyone "Go" anywhere? It's a metaphor.
    I can go to the bathroom... that's sort of a metaphor... but it involves going in two senses.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

  9. #29
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I have another problem if someone wants of speculate.

    I have come to conclusion that time travelling could be in direct conflict with christianity.

    Problem

    You go 200 years back and help another person to have a happy life instead of commiting many crimes.
    But the problem is that the soul of that person is already in hell.
    So when that person dies what will happen. Will the soul be moved in heaven or duplicate will be made so that it can be on both places what makes sense because that soul lived good and bad life.

    I can complicate even further but this is enough for now.
    Here's a few points you might want to consider with your "problem".

    A) Time traveling (in the backward direction) hasn't been accomplished yet, so this isn't really a "problem".

    B) Your views on time travel sound more like the plot of a science fiction movie, than something based on a possible time travel scenario.

    C) (part 1) Christians have widely varying viewpoints about heaven and hell.

    C) (part 2) See Samuel's comment about Judgement Day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Why stop there?

    Let's get a team together and go back and save Jesus!

    (talk about REALLY mucking up a predominant faith system.)
    D) Assuming he is the Son of God, then you're not going to be able to stop the crucifiction, time travel or no. (And if he's not then you'd really need to stop the Apostle Paul more than the crucifiction.)
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  10. #30
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Here's a few points you might want to consider with your "problem".

    A) Time traveling (in the backward direction) hasn't been accomplished yet, so this isn't really a "problem".

    B) Your views on time travel sound more like the plot of a science fiction movie, than something based on a possible time travel scenario.

    C) (part 1) Christians have widely varying viewpoints about heaven and hell.

    C) (part 2) See Samuel's comment about Judgement Day.
    I am aware of that but this entire thread is so theoretical and full of hypothesis so it was a right place to post this.

    I've said I will not complicate further because entire thing is ridiculous from realistic point of view.
    But it is a interesting scenario from theoretical point of view.

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