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  1. #11
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    In theory, if you cloned a person then yes, the clone would have to be considered a person with both complete human dignity and a soul. The soul exists even though it can not be as precisely measured as other components of our makeup. I can be observed in action, even though we do not understand it's limites or boundaries. From a moral perspective, if such cloning were to take place, it would be very important to recognize the full humanity of this person rather to fall into a very dark trap as has happened in the past.

  2. #12
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    The real question is, if you had sex with your clone would that be:

    a: gay?
    b: masturbation?
    c: incest?
    d: a & c?
    Ans: d
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  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I still see the soul/spirit as a philosophical construct. There's no real hard evidence that we exist apart from our bodies, although we've got a lot of anecdotal evidence that some people want to accept.

    And it's funny because even the ancient Jews (from which Christianity descended) had no real idea either, which is why they took desecration of the body (whether it was a criminal's body left out to be devoured by animals, or getting tattoos, or diseases which left one physically unclean, etc.) so seriously. A violation against the body is a violation against one's being, i.e., soul. Both believer and unbeliever went into the grave (Sheol) at death, and only JHVH knew what happened after that. Being executed for a crime was literally a "damnation" of sorts, since the body was being killed.

    The whole abortion argument also hinges on the idea of a soul, rather than as perhaps a "developing human." Realistically, it seems that "souls" (which include body, mind, and emotions) develop from a state of no knowledge and/or efficacy from conception throughout childhood to adulthood and thus grow in power and stature and influence.

    (as a side note, it makes sense to say that intrinsically all humans are 'equal' in value as human beings; but it's interesting that we sometimes decry abortion and yet permit war against civilians, if we think it necessary. In a sense, we do attribute more value to people at different stages of life.)

    As far as the clone goes, I think the clone would be another body. Thus another "soul" although i consider "soul" to describe the totality of a person including their body, NOT as something abstracted and separate from it. If the brain itself had been duplicated, the person would differentiate from the time from which the cloning occurred and you would see the clone individualize based on its new experiences.


    ps. no, I'm not having sex with my clone. (Talk about fubar.)
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  4. #14
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I still see the soul/spirit as a philosophical construct. There's no real hard evidence that we exist apart from our bodies, although we've got a lot of anecdotal evidence that some people want to accept.
    The belief that we even have bodies based on the data we receive from the senses is itself a philosophical construct.

    I would say the evidence for a mind, (i.e., a soul), is much harder than the evidence for the existence of any material bodies; for material existence is itself an abstraction to which we appeal to in order to explain the more immediate phenomena of our mental states: our knowledge of mental existence is more immediate, and therefore more certain, than our knowledge of material existence. Without knowlege of the mental, we could have no knowledge of the material.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    If the brain itself had been duplicated, the person would differentiate from the time from which the cloning occurred and you would see the clone individualize based on its new experiences.
    I think what makes up the content of a person's soul is their life experiences. Therefore, as Jennifer states, once the clone starts to have their own life experiences they will be a seperate soul.

    Take for example, identical twins that have been seperated at birth. Some choices they make are the same, but there are enough differences that make them individuals seperate and unique from the other.

  6. #16
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't see why it would be any different than identical twins, myself. So, yes, I believe a clone would have a soul/spirit.
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  7. #17
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnivera View Post
    The "soul" is a cultural and religious construction.

    There's no physical code for the "soul" in DNA as there are genes for skin color, hair color, eye color, and so forth. There's no gene for the soul in nucleotide bases. Hence it can't be cloned.
    Liar! It's on autosome 23!

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  8. #18
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ...
    As far as the clone goes, I think the clone would be another body. Thus another "soul" although i consider "soul" to describe the totality of a person including their body, NOT as something abstracted and separate from it. If the brain itself had been duplicated, the person would differentiate from the time from which the cloning occurred and you would see the clone individualize based on its new experiences.
    This is basically how I see it too. (Actually I agree with your whole post, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing.) Soul, depending on context, would either mean "human being" or "mind". Clones certainly qualify in both cases. I don't really see how a twin can have a soul, but a clone cannot. Both are just a genetic duplicate of another person.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Soul, depending on context, would either mean "human being" or "mind".
    To me, for something to qualify as soul or spirit, it would have to be an aspect of our consciousness or being that survived physical death.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post

    If we were to clone a human being, would that person have a spirit or soul?

    Of course, for those who do not believe in such a thing, the point is moot. But I like to speculate and speak about such things.
    Nice inquiry...never thought of that before


    I say it would have it's own spirit! Hopefully

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