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Must U.S. Military Chaplains Believe In God to be Ordained?

iwakar

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Should Military Chaplains Have To Believe In God?

...Jason Heap, a 38-year-old graduate of the University of Oxford, and of Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University. Heap was born in Houston and raised in Philadelphia as a devout Christian; he was licensed as a Christian minister in Texas, and, ultimately, lost his faith.
Heap is applying to become the first humanist chaplain. These chaplains are also assigned to the pastoral care of Marines. But this leads to the inevitable question: What would you do, on the eve of battle, if a grunt asked you to pray with him?

"As a pastoral caregiver, I wouldn't lead a prayer with that particular person, but I would help them with it," Heap says. "Having come from the background of Christians, I would understand what sort of things to help the person speak about. I am very familiar with the Bible as a scholar. If they are a humanist or an atheist, even Wiccan or pagan, it would be on the sort of terms where I would be able to work more with them philosophically."
Last week, the U.S. House of Representatives an instructing the armed forces to only allow religious organizations that believe in a higher power to endorse chaplains. And so far, the Navy has not indicated whether it will accept the Humanist Society as the endorser of Jason Heap.
According to current Pentagon records, about 1 percent of active duty military in all four services checked boxes for "agnostic" and "atheist" as their religious status. That's more than 13,000 soldiers, airmen, Marines and sailors. This is, incidentally, more than all the Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims combined — and they each have their own chaplains.

But some traditional chaplains, such as Ron Crews, will have none of it. Crews, a retired Army chaplain with 28 years in uniform, is director of the advocacy group Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty.

" 'For God and country.' That is the motto of the chaplain corps," he says, "and someone who comes from a humanist freethinker position could not ascribe to that motto. So it's by definition of who a chaplain is."
 

cafe

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Don't they have to try to facilitate soldiers of all faiths, regardless of what their own happens to be? If so, I don't see why believing in no deity would be worse than believing in a different deity. :thinking:
 

iwakar

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I find it odd that the military would be averse to something that could be a strong incentive and encouragement to servicemen and -women that are enlisted or considering enlisting. People that feel supported and understood are happier and more productive... I think this is a sound statement. I also understand that the military lags significantly behind the civilian population in policy and societal attitudes.
 

Mole

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With one thousand military bases in foreign countries it's about time the USA has humanist chaplains.

Mind you I think humourous chaplains would be more appropriate in helping recruits break the fifth commandment.
 
W

WALMART

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Whatever happened to freedom of religion?

The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy!

The concepts of freedom are highly insulative to the purports of a militaristic organization.
 

Typh0n

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The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy!

The concepts of freedom are highly insulative to the purports of a militaristic organization.

I could comment on this, but I suppose irony speaks for itself.:D
 

Ponyboy

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As I mentioned in another thread, I don't believe in/understand religion, but if someone doesn't believe in God then how could they be a "go-to" person in matters of God? (I am intentionally ignoring the military aspect of it.)
 

Metamorphosis

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As far as I was told (I haven't looked at the regulations myself), military chaplains are the only "counselors" that do not have to report ANYTHING you say, no matter what it is, so they are really the only ones that you can say absolutely anything to in that setting (as opposed to psychologists and other counselors). I personally don't think it's right that only religious people can be in that position.

With that said, if they only acted in a religious capacity and not as counselors that would be a different story.

I've never personally wanted to speak to any counselor or chaplain, but I think that if I wanted to, I would be turned off by the idea of having someone bring religion forward as an answer. I know some chaplains do and some don't, but I know that some feel like they have a duty to do so and it would be difficult for me to take the situation seriously after that.

In regards to the idea of being a "go-to" person for a religion...A Christian chaplain isn't really a go to person for anyone that isn't a Christian so I don't see how a Humanist would be any different.
 

Bamboo

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My mom worked as a *hospital* chaplain for the dying. She had a background in Christianity/Judaism and was trained to perform last rights, but she doesn't particularly have any religious affiliation.

Don't they have to try to facilitate soldiers of all faiths, regardless of what their own happens to be? If so, I don't see why believing in no deity would be worse than believing in a different deity. :thinking:

I think that's right.



Aside from persons who were concerned with specific theological questions or who needed special ceremony (Catholics), I'd assume that the whole idea is to have another human nearby to provide you with solace and care in a time of doubt or pain and it doesn't particularly matter what faith they are.

But then again, that's a bit of a humanist sentiment in of itself.
 

Ponyboy

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In regards to the idea of being a "go-to" person for a religion...A Christian chaplain isn't really a go to person for anyone that isn't a Christian so I don't see how a Humanist would be any different.

I didn't mention Christian per se, but it seems you assumed the same thing I did. So could just anybody call themselves a chaplain? Shouldn't there be some type of qualification? Like maybe believing in what you preach (only using that word because I don't know what any other religions call it)? Otherwise, they are just a person in the uniform that can't be depended on because nobody will trust them or know what they believe.
 

Beorn

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I don't really care.

When it comes to the spiritual welfare of our soldiers the most important thing is that they're not unnecessarily subjected to warfare.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Well, what is the point of a chaplain? I always thought it was basically being a preacher for some military unit. I am really confused about what an atheist preacher would do. But then, I don't really understand what preachers do either.

Help, my circuitry is overheating!
 

Coriolis

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Don't they have to try to facilitate soldiers of all faiths, regardless of what their own happens to be? If so, I don't see why believing in no deity would be worse than believing in a different deity. :thinking:

Aside from persons who were concerned with specific theological questions or who needed special ceremony (Catholics), I'd assume that the whole idea is to have another human nearby to provide you with solace and care in a time of doubt or pain and it doesn't particularly matter what faith they are.
This was my understanding in the military, namely that a given chaplain may be primarily responsible for the everyday spiritual needs of those sharing his/her own faith, but must be prepared to serve as a spiritual and counseling resource for anyone in need. This is especially necessary in-theater and on deployments where there might not be many chaplains on hand, and no chance to consult one of your own faith.

I find it odd that the military would be averse to something that could be a strong incentive and encouragement to servicemen and -women that are enlisted or considering enlisting. People that feel supported and understood are happier and more productive... I think this is a sound statement. I also understand that the military lags significantly behind the civilian population in policy and societal attitudes.
Actually, the military often leads, though with mixed success. The military was racially integrated before many other institutions, and combat exclusions aside, women have long had access to greater responsibility and better training in the military than elsewhere. Benefits offered to civilian employees of the military have generally been ahead of their time relative to civilian jobs. Handling of gays is a significant exception, though the recent Supreme Court decision about DOMA gives military members important benefits still not offered in many civilian settings.

As I mentioned in another thread, I don't believe in/understand religion, but if someone doesn't believe in God then how could they be a "go-to" person in matters of God? (I am intentionally ignoring the military aspect of it.)
If I recall correctly, military chaplains must learn about all faiths represented in the military, or at least their base/unit, precisely so they have some frame of reference in dealing with people of other faiths. An atheist helping a believer, then, doesn't seem that much harder than a Baptist helping a Wiccan. If your personal faith prevents you from doing this, you are not cut out to be a military chaplain. Whoever wrote "they help the believer meet their own needs", in other words, serving more as a facilitator, was on the right track. The point about chaplains being the only source of confidential counseling was also important.

I didn't mention Christian per se, but it seems you assumed the same thing I did. So could just anybody call themselves a chaplain? Shouldn't there be some type of qualification? Like maybe believing in what you preach (only using that word because I don't know what any other religions call it)? Otherwise, they are just a person in the uniform that can't be depended on because nobody will trust them or know what they believe.
It is my understanding that a chaplain must be ordained clergy in whatever faith/denomination he/she wants to represent. So, to be a Jewish chaplain, you must meet whatever requirements any other rabbi must meet. I wonder, then, if there are Buddhist chaplains, since in my albeit limited understanding, Buddhists don't exactly believe in God.
 

Ponyboy

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If I recall correctly, military chaplains must learn about all faiths represented in the military, or at least their base/unit, precisely so they have some frame of reference in dealing with people of other faiths. An atheist helping a believer, then, doesn't seem that much harder than a Baptist helping a Wiccan. If your personal faith prevents you from doing this, you are not cut out to be a military chaplain. Whoever wrote "they help the believer meet their own needs", in other words, serving more as a facilitator, was on the right track.
99% of any advice I've ever given came from the person seeking advice. I was just an ear to listen to their problems which sounds like the above. Could I be a chaplain?

The point about chaplains being the only source of confidential counseling was also important..
I'm not sure how much trust/faith I could give someone who believed so differently.
 

Chiharu

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Don't Christian chaplains often serve soldiers of other faiths? How would this be any different?
 

freeeekyyy

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It's no different than a chaplain of a different faith. I'm sure if you have an issue that's related to your faith, they'd just refer you to another chaplain. That's kind of how things are normally done...
 

Coriolis

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99% of any advice I've ever given came from the person seeking advice. I was just an ear to listen to their problems which sounds like the above. Could I be a chaplain?
As I wrote above, a chaplain must be ordained in the religion he/she wants to represent. If you feel counseling and advising is your calling, you could pursue this route. Otherwise, you could serve much the same informal purpose as a commander/NCO or even just a good buddy, though without the confidentiality. The institutional authority of a chaplain also allows him/her to intercede with commanders regarding conflicts between duties and religious obligations, or with Post/Base facilities people to arrange for meetings or ceremonies, etc. even for people of different faiths.

I'm not sure how much trust/faith I could give someone who believed so differently.
You are probably not alone in this sentiment, which is why the military tries to have chaplains available for many faiths, especially those represented in the local unit or post. When there are not official chaplains available, most posts/bases will keep a referral list of civilian clergy who have volunteered to work with the military population. At least this works stateside.
 

Ponyboy

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You are probably not alone in this sentiment, which is why the military tries to have chaplains available for many faiths, especially those represented in the local unit or post. When there are not official chaplains available, most posts/bases will keep a referral list of civilian clergy who have volunteered to work with the military population. At least this works stateside.

Oh yeah, that's true. I suppose I should have mentioned that my main experience, hence my thought process, was based on my time in the Navy. While we did spend much time in port on base, I was mainly thinking of shipboard life where we had one chaplain for the ship. There was something like 440 people on board. I imagine larger ships (carriers) would have much more services available. Apologies if I seemed short-sighted, I was just going off my experience.
 

Coriolis

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Oh yeah, that's true. I suppose I should have mentioned that my main experience, hence my thought process, was based on my time in the Navy. While we did spend much time in port on base, I was mainly thinking of shipboard life where we had one chaplain for the ship. There was something like 440 people on board. I imagine larger ships (carriers) would have much more services available. Apologies if I seemed short-sighted, I was just going off my experience.
No worries. In theory, your ship's chaplain should have had a basic familiarity with at least all religions represented on the ship, so he could respond with sensitivity to anyone in need. I don't know how well this is done in practice, though, or anything about the experience of non-mainstream believers with military chaplains. I am non-mainstream myself, but never consulted a chaplain while on active duty.
 
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