Ultrarevolutionary Omniversalism ~ The Systems Metaphysics of Hyperdimensional Design

[FigerPuppet]

Why don't you put all of this effort into something more useful, such as looking for pennies on the sidewalk?

 

[RaptorWizard]

Why don't you put all of this effort into something more useful, such as looking for pennies on the sidewalk?

If that's more useful than what I'm doing now, then not only is what I'm doing here useless, but also a complete waste of time (in your eyes).

Maybe you're just being a clown with this, but really, it could one day give big returns, expecially if I can synthesize it all together.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Download - Grand Book of the Sith

*WARNING - My computer blocked something "potentially malicious" it said from that page when I did the download, so just take caution and be aware of that danger.

The Dark Side is the essence of Darkness and power. As such, those along its path are touched
by its nature and brought to perceive their world in terms of named values: strength, power,
domination, Darwinism, war, and victory. Those of the Dark Side seek the challenge within our
world and the spiritual world: to overcome their own mortality, to find the source of power that
would allow them to forfeit their mortal coil and rise beyond the shackles of their bestowed
limitations. They seek challenge and confrontation, to find their limits and expand them.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
The above statement is rather obvious in its meaning: the Universe is always in motion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
By embracing the truth of the Universe, we gain energy and motivation—we are filled with ourselves.
Through strength, I gain power.
The result is that you advance and grow, and therefore gain and advantage and often get what you want.
Through power, I gain victory.
This refers to the success experienced by following this path.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
Success leads to the overcoming of failure and pain, freeing us from the clouding chains we put on ourselves, and
the chains others place on us.
The Force shall free me.
The final step is the unlimited expansion possible from this path.—ultimate power. There is a fictional Sith
prophesy that one totally freed by the force shall lead the Sith to victory, and destroy them, leading them all to
freedom themselves, as a messiah figure.
—The Sith Code (with explanations)

 

[RaptorWizard]

Ah yes, I finally finshed my amazing outline for the fulfillment of our Ultimate Destiny!

In 10 years, humanity will have perfected a fundamental "Theory of Everything".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

A theory of everything (ToE) or final theory is any theory in the realm of theoretical physics that fully explains and links together all known physical phenomena, and predicts the outcome of any experiment that could be carried out in principle.

In 20 years, we will know the overall architectures of our universe and be able to map it all out.

http://jp.senescence.info/thoughts/cosmology.html

It is safe to assume that the universe began with the big bang; a huge black hole so dense that it exploded giving rise to matter and even dimensions began expanding. But what existed before the big bang? Has the big bang been repeating itself for a longer time than can be expressed in words? Was there a beginning? What if some species was able to manipulate space and time in such a way that it was present in a previous version of this universe and was able to survive the big bang. Perhaps there is a god or many gods. Perhaps some species did survive and create this universe for its entertainment.

In 30 years, people will be able to access supernatural powers like flying through the use of technology.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html

Cayce predicted in September, 1939, that when there is the same interest or study given to things or phases of mental and spiritual phenomena as has been and is given to the materialized or material phenomena, then it will become just as practical, as measurable, as meter-able, as any other phase of human experience.

In 40 years, there will be a means for penetrating the barriers of distance via teleportation.

http://www.teslasociety.com/the_secret_and_mysterious_hero_of_science.htm

Tesla Memorial Society whose headquarters are in New York sent many letters to the leaders of the world stating that Tesla is the inventor or master mind of many things we use today. His works were nor restricted with technical inventions, there were also theories about communication with the outside world, teleportation and time travel. On the contrary of Einstein’s theory of relativity he was working on a universe model he named dynamic theory of gravity.

In 50 years, negative matter and dark energy will be harnessed to alter the fabrics of space-time.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=420044

The repelling force of the negative mass matter is the source of 'dark energy', which can be show to have caused the expansion and it's later accelerated expansion of spacetime.

In 60 years, advances in cosmology and enlightenment alike will give us the wisdom to preserve world peace.

http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/arConversation.htm

In a recent issue of What is Enlightenment? Ken Wilber described enlightenment as the 'radical realization of the ever-present condition of all conditions, a radical freedom in its radical fullness, an infinite Release in the midst of misery, a tacit realization that you are utterly one with all that is arising moment to moment in any and all domains, high or low, sacred or profane.'

In 70 years, mankind wil begin its incredible expansion to alien galaxies all across the universe.

http://www.tauzero.aero/about/why-we-exist/

Some consider that it is not time to pursue starflight until after we have colonies on the Moon and Mars; reasonable learning steps. Lessons from history, however, suggest that it is best to pursue both the next-obvious steps AND the revolutionary advances that could circumvent those near-term actions. By evoking the goal of starflight, we are forced to look beyond extrapolations of existing methods, to seek the breakthroughs that could change everything, the breakthroughs that others can’t explore.

In 80 years, new dimensions will become accessible through inducing higher states of awareness.

http://www.creativityandinquiry.org/ScienceofConsciousness.html

The study of metaphysics can also provide the systematic development of metaphysical skills that have practical applications in our everyday lives. For example, the many forms of “healing” to assist healthcare, “remote viewing” to assist law enforcement, and “channelling” to provide information, insights, and wisdom about our existence and beyond.

In 90 years, channels for contact with hyper-dimensional alien divinities will be established.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/...en-intelligence-the-supernatural-and-divinity

Could there be a link, then, between what so many call the supernatural and the existence of beings out there that are perfectly natural but so beyond our comprehension as to be indistinguishable from supernatural entities?

In 100 years, we build bridges to transcend the heavens and forge new creations of our own design.

http://letsgetrealpod.blogspot.com/2012/09/futurist-jason-silva-speaks-about.html

Transcension is a theory, its a hypothesis that attempts to account for Fermi's Paradox. Now Fermi's Paradox is a question that asks that if the universe is so infinitely large... and it would have had so much time to develop intelligent life... then how come we don't see any evidence of those technologically advanced civilisations anywhere. Eventually our technology reaches a point where simultaneously with this expansion we're pioneering more and more stem compression, which is the compression of space, time, energy and matter. We have denser and denser spaces where more and more computation and complexity is occurring...

In 1000 years, highly evolved humans as a galactic super-civilization will open up the "rainbow bridge to infinity".

http://godhoodism.com/godhood-definitions.htm

Omniverse - Infinity, all possible attributes and modes are in play, multiverses are categorized by the attributes/modes active in its child universes. All possible modes of existence are actualized. All the multiverses are connected to our omniverse via higher dimensions. However there can be more Omniverses separated by the great expanses of pure thought within Gods mind. Only another God could traverse those great oceans of consciousness to get to those other omniverses. Whether they're directly in the original eternal Gods mind or the near infinite other Gods who ascended to Godhood. The Omniverse itself can be a God.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Who I am is not important, my message is. This is the way it must be. My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well.

Hey fellas, I'm RaptorWizard! I seek to answer questions about cosmology and enlightenment - who we are, why we are here, where we are going, what everything is all about, and the mind of God. The final step is the unlimited expansion possible from this path - ultimate power.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I'm depressed about certain things, in particular the massive problems facing our society right now at such a critical point in our development.

Still, it could be an opportunity to rise up, build a better civilization out of the ashes. Perhaps that's something to also be optimistic about.

Something funny about Neanderthal theories though is how if we came directly from them, then why the heck is the human composition so fragile and easily broken by the elements?

To me, it's almost as if some higher divine order refined our beings (or perhaps we could say degraded us) on another platform.

Still, it's dangerous to jump to conclusions in regard to conspiracy theories, kind of like this one: http://montalk.net/science/163/intelligent-design

If nature were the sole driving force behind evolution, then natural selection and random mutation would be the only ways in which species can advance. Those ways do indeed occur; in a situation of survival, the strong survive, and thus the species becomes stronger over time. And natural factors like cosmic rays can disrupt DNA to create mutants with a survival advantage. Such random mutations are shots in the dark, however. There are too many harmful mutations possible versus healthy ones to account for the successful evolution of species toward stronger and healthier ones.

There are countless more ways to break something than to fix it. Mutations are entropic and destructive unless guided by an intelligence that can drastically cut down on the number of attempts needed to reach success. Something is needed to shape the probability of mutations toward those that are healthy and have purpose.

Notice that the term “random” in “random mutation” simply means it is something that science cannot predict or explain. The same term is used in physics when referring to quantum jumps, which are also said to be random. Sometimes randomness stems from lack of information about the actual physical cause; other times randomness stems from the cause being nondeterministic and nonphysical. Science refuses to distinguish between these in an effort to pin everything on material causes and turn a blind eye to everything metaphysical.

Humans are most certainly the products of purposeful genetic engineering by various alien factions, although these aliens more likely modified or combined existing species instead of creating humanity from scratch. A few other species like cats and pigs are also odd enough in their characteristics and rapid appearance in history to warrant suspicion of having been genetically engineered. Other species on earth evolved on their own through natural and self-directed intelligent evolution. God is the watchmaker who set it all into motion and then experiences it, intervening theistically only when nothing else can.

Spirituality gives an extra energy to the stuctures of metaphysics. Without energy, it lacks force, and without structure, it lacks foundations.

“What we now want is closer contact and better understanding between individuals and communities all over the earth, and the elimination of egoism and pride which is always prone to plunge the world into primeval barbarism and strife... Peace can only come as a natural consequence of universal enlightenment...”
― Nikola Tesla

My ideal for a hero is someone who achieves great things and rises up to "the Transcendental Pinnacle" of self-mastery, maximizes his promise and seeks to become God!

That's a bit too big for most people, but I guess anyone can be a hero who gives good inspiration for walking paths to higher planes.

I think emotions are all about evolution - that is, they give us motivation to change things, for without those basic desires, man would be fighting with sticks and stones.

It gives us a will, a drive to manifest our wishes, bring them into realization and give them immanence.

Love I think is something that is the offspring of knowledge, like when we have more of an understanding, then we can better see and appreciate the essential qualities of things.

Love also I think is more than that, but knowledge nonetheless may promote the growth of love.

Love, at the deepest level, seems to be about faith and happiness, having hopes that we can make a better world and be free.

The power to heal is within the hearts of us all!

I'm all for Taoism yes, but not Hinduism - instead I'm much more for Hermeticism.

The Taoists understand natural processes, and the Hermeticists shape it all to their vision.

Please don't tell me this whole idea of "micro-chipping the masses" will EVER happen! Because then the Bible might actually be right about something (Mark of the Beast) and be an omen of bad things that are to come.

We don't want to become robots; we want to become a supernatural uber-race with an ultimate willpower and a life force.

Something about that idea of becoming more machine than man just doesn't feel right.

I mean, I'm in many respects very much a constructive rationalist, but I'm also an idealistic humanitarian. It would suck really badly if robotics became the foundation of our society and destroyed spirituality. Even when looked at logically, the robots/machines/AI could take over the world!

Surely it's more within reason to follow a higher divine path. That's where the true promise for the future I believe lies, is in faith. If we had enough faith, then we could eventually realize our full potential. One day man will move mountains; there's nothing that we can't do - we just have to believe!

They have some fancy constructs for connecting with the higher self, and unique metaphors for the various energies present in our world, but they also have some crazy rituals and worship deities that are very phony.

I would imagine though that you're more into philosophical Hinduism, which is better I think (like the push to reach "Moksha"). I still prefer the flowish quality of Taoism and the esoteric quality of Hermeticism more regardless.


Being reincarnated here on Earth repeatedly if we forget everything and experience the same sufferings in never ending cycles sounds absolutely evil!

But then again, maybe it makes our life force more potent upon each incarnation, gradually makes our "inborn potential" greater.

Well, on the cosmic scale it may be small and without much meaning, but for us, pain and suffering are very real things; we might as well just for the sake of simplicity call them evil.

Yes and no - yes because people can live again, and no because I wouldn't want to do it again (at least here on Earth).

It would be much more fun instead to expand out into space, or even discover a new realm of existence.

I think people should be allowed to do anything (including dates), although that idea, even with potentially expansive horizons, could also give more room for overall destruction.

Still, it seems like putting a meter on everything on the whole makes life much more dry than giving it the exploding sparkles. I really need to work on my utopian visions...

One thing I wish to note is that even if the Mormon gospel and plan of salvation have truth, they're certainly not all complete. It may have part of the full picture, but just realize that you could probably integrate bits and pieces from other religions or world philosophies.

I think he/she "knows" it's true because Mormons have doctrines that when we pray, God either gives us a "burning of the bosom" if what we're praying about is true, on whatever level; if we experience a "stupor of thought", then that particular aspect is false or not worth your efforts.

Personally, I've read most of the Book of Mormon, and I think God might be too violent there kind of like he is in the Bible, promoting us to fight wars against those opposed to him. He should allow for more freedom to follow alternative paths.

Still, I have a theory that God "deliberately withheld" knowledge from the masses and only gave it in "secret Gnosis" to those who could handle it (like Hermes).

Joseph Smith's quest for a sacred golden treasure buried in dark earth, his involvement with ceremonial magic, the angelic visitations, the pseudepigraphic texts he "translated", his declaration of Masonry as a remnant of priesthood, and his restoration of a Temple with its central mystery of a sacred wedding – all could be fitted into one very recently recognized context: Hermeticism.

"There are but very few beings in the world who understand rightly the character of God," he began. "If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend their own character." Within humankind there is an immortal spark of intelligence, taught the Prophet, a seed of divine intellect or light which is "as immortal as, and coequal with, God Himself." God is not, however, to be understood as one and singular. Turning to Hebrew and an oddly Kabbalistic exegesis of the first three words of Genesis (an exegesis probably taken directly from the Zohar), Smith pronounced there are a multitude of Gods emanated from the First God, existing one above the other without end. He who humankind calls God was Himself once a man; and man, by advancing in intelligence, knowledge – consciousness – may be exalted with God, become as God.

Occultism uses the Hermetic and Kabbalistic theory of creation and angelic/demonic forces, as a basis for ritual magic, and theurgy. Most magic theory involves the manipulation of Yetzirah, the world of Formation, and letting the effect trickle down to the physical universe (in accordance to the Hermetic concept of "as above, so below"). This includes the communication and manipulation of inhabitants of Yetzirah, angelic or demonic forces.

Several Christian Gnostic sects saw the Cosmos were the product of an evil creator and thus evil itself, while Hermetists saw the Cosmos as a beautiful creation in the image of God.[26] Both view that mankind was originally divine and has become entrapped in the material world, a slave to passion and distracted from divine nature. However, the Gnostics often held a pessimistic view of mankind as a result while the Hermetic belief is generally positive towards mankind just the same.

Anyone who rewards and punishes on the outlines of "doing exactly as he commands" with rigid meters placed on what's right or wrong needs to be looked at with very strong skepticism.

I for one actually believe in God yes, but surely God is something much greater than our limited faiths depict he/she/it/all to be.

He should ideally allow for the expansion of individuality and a uptopia than can include EVERYONE!

 

[RaptorWizard]

Bury your ideas in a vault for a thousand years to await the unfolding of human consciousness to comprehend your vision.

I have a theory that prophecies of any nature, such as Astrological predictions can be averted if the right steps of action are taken.

We have free will; nothing is fixed, and everything is contingent with the choices we choose to make.


A person of sufficient ugliness can take action to make themselves less ugly, like maybe by living a healthier lifestyle, or not doing things that damage physical constitution.

The point is, we have control over how our bodies develop and how we present our features, and as such, ugliness is very much a factor in the decision for me.

Still, it's not like the person needs to be irrestibly sexy; they just need to be clean - and a pure heart sure makes all of that come to life!

No, I'm completely comfortable and in control of my feelings; they have a lot force, but it's also focused.

I feel much more metaphysical and capable of transcending all things rather than cosmic and at peace with it all.

The way of the challenger far exceeds the way of the mediator.


No, and I don't EVER want to be happy, until my greatest dreams and visions for the future of everything spring into being!

There's so much progress to be made, and if we just sit around being content with it all, then we won't get any higher.

Ideally, we should be happy when the entire horizon is open and laid bare to our gaze; ideally, that's what I wish to accomplish.

I don't really "believe" anything about God - that's an infinite question. Still, it's good to see a widespread interest in the ideologies I have promoted.

I mean God is a very high-minded entity beyond our current scope and takes on many levels we aren't connected to.

God can be for instance a pool of infinite promise, can take shape with anything.
He can be a field of love that fills us all with his light.
Beings with great powers beyond our own can be Gods.
Existence as a whole is God in the sense that its supreme and birthed us.

Ultimately, God may very well be things along those lines, but surely there's much more to it.

As far as the Beautiful One goes, I subscribe to a theory that our world was corrupted by a parasite, destroyed the old program.

The good Gods just seem to guide us very indirectly, more like listening to vibrations and giving feelings, whereas the bad Gods cloud it all.

I titled my newest thread "A Journey to Know the Mind of God", the greatest one of them all.

Yes, some people are clearly more talented than others, but it's only going to be in their areas of specialty. We each can hone our own unique gifts, push them to the max.

I'm a type that changes my mind in light of new information or alternative points of view and contingent possibilities way too easily!

I don't care one bit about the preservation of national security. It's much more visionary I think to imagine a world where people freely give of their own unique gifts and there's world peace, without need for any restrictions.

I shall one day have the drive and determination to see it happen, even if I'm living in the land of my creation from my own grave!

Well, it's best not to jump to conclusion about these kinds of things, but still, before you can move the mountain, you have to believe God can give you the strength, now or in future times.

"The Singularity is an epic metaphor: we all know the story, it’s a way to describe an event horizon, just within our reach, where technological progress will be so profound and our human/technology symbiosis so deep, that by all accounts it will birth a new chapter in human history, a new epoch in the cosmos." - Jason Silva

Why are mystics and psychics always professying doom and apocalypse? Try to cast brighter horizonsm, even if it's a false dawn.

We do after all have the power to shape the future, and perhaps the future has promises it can give us back.

"Physics is the most fundamental, and least significant, of the sciences." - Ken Wilber
"The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence." - Nikola Tesla

The point is that we start from the physics to build ourselves up, but at higher levels of development, mundane science will vanish as we connect with higher forces.
I think that once we have a theory of everything along with greater technologies, then we can begin empirical explorations of inner space and spiritual worlds.

"The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and labors and hopes." - Nikola Tesla

New horizons have been laid bare to our gaze by the Creator as infinite possible worlds open up for our expansions. We are free to explore this endless platform in all directions to any destination. Building the bridge to reach this point may take very much time, but looking up is easier than flying, and the realization of our ultimate goal is immanent.

"What has the future in store for this strange being, born of a breath, of perishable tissue, yet Immortal, with his powers fearful and Divine? What magic will be wrought by him in the end? What is to be his greatest deed, his crowning achievement?" - Nikola Tesla

We have all promise to become like the Creator, to reach the top and ascend beyond. Upon transcending the pinnacle, surely we will be able to accomplish unnatural feats normally restricted from our grasp within the boundaries of our current system. If we annihilate these barriers, then old laws will vanish and new wonders shall spring into being. There's nothing that we can't do!

Evolution - A life, death, and rebirth of all things; a constant creation and destruction of Suns, Worlds, and Galaxies.

All of Manifested Creation goes Divineward as the INFINITE MIND of GOD wills that all of Life should evolve upward and onward along the scale of Life, a Spiritward Journey of all things.

Over time I have built a world-view, like constructing a map of the cosmos, and from this, essentially everything is understandable and anything is possible. All the things I’ve done, have been self-taught by picking up on or asking myself good, clear, penetrating questions to expose and articulate the hidden structures that underlie the experience of living.

I guess we can approach this problem metaphorically, from the idea of computer programs and how they evolve.
Perhaps computers can experience dreams, see the future, have a will to life, and so forth.
They can even learn from experience, integrate it all and become wiser.
Then there's even theories on how sufficiently advanced computers would be able to take over the world, even though they originally were our subjects.
Computers could potentially learn to perceive their surroundings outside the limited cybserspace of their own programming.
Ultimately, we don't really know what's within our limits, or what limits can be transcended. The wonders of yesterday are today common occurences.

This is a good point; it could just be the end of the world as we know it, like it could undergo some kind of higher transformation in future times.

 

[RaptorWizard]

No, it isn't. The Buddhists are way too detached to their empowering passions, and they are also much too passive in their stupid peace philosophies of just harmoniously connecting with everything. Those who really love things surely wish to create what's "best for all", and I'm sorry to say that Buddha sitting around naked under the tree isn't going to make any progress towards that. If you want to find the "ultimate answer of everything", love is a central point of importance to integrate. There's a quote by Revan that goes, "You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. Those who do not—those who try to walk the path of moderation—will fail, dragged down by their own weakness." The greatest power is Love!

True, mercy ended up being what saved the galaxy. But if it weren't for Revan first initiating radical new courses of action, then there wouldn't have been all of the developments he worked to generate and control. Revan did the dark side partially to better protect the galaxy from the true Sith. It was a strategy for peace. Then later on, he sacrificed himself to halt the Sith Emperor's force of will and need to expand his annihilations.

I can see your point. True clarity of vision can integrate passions, but it shouldn't be controlled by passions, lest we sacrifice pure perception. Then it's better yet when we can objectively verify these things in context for ourselves. I did read just now pieces of your article, and it's good to see you are following a path.

 

[RaptorWizard]

The Grid: Exploring the Hidden Infrastructure of Reality
http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Explorin...2&keywords=The+biggest+questions+in+existence

The examination of parallel universes, wormholes, & extra dimensional portals might sound like the beginning of a Ray Bradbury novel--but this isn't science fiction.

In The Grid: Exploring the Hidden Infrastructure of Reality, authors Larry Flaxman and Marie D. Jones present their theory of The Grid --the pattern by which all of reality is built upon and structured around. Using evidence from quantum theory as well as support from many religious and spiritual traditions, The Grid hypothesizes that, like a skyscraper, reality is constructed in a rising grid pattern, layer upon layer, with doors, windows, stairs and other "connectors" between levels of reality, and theorizes that we may be able to use these connectors to access other planes of reality.

With illustrations to demonstrate the true, hidden nature of reality, and examples pulled from both science and many major religions, The Grid: Exploring the Hidden Infrastructure of Reality examines the evidence for the author's theory, and presents an explanation for the interconnectivity of all of existence.

 

[RaptorWizard]

How many stars are there? I'm going to be the first one to see them all!

The ultimate aim is building our bridge to the superman!

It means you have evil schemes for cosmic domination and destroying everything in the natural order!

Old laws and foundations must be broken before new worlds can spring into being - truly this is the way of the Creator.

No, because someone else (namely my alter ego) could bring my great ambitions into realization before my true self (pun intended) that I actually inhabit can live those uptopian dreams as the glorious and guiding light to our ultimate salvation.

This pretty much means that I wouldn't want someone else getting the rewards and recognition.

I jest in part, because I'm all for everyone advancing our condition, but I'm still very much out there to make myself rise up to great heights.

I know the Sith Emperor in Star Wars (way before that douchebag Palpatine ever existed) was bent upon bringing the entire galaxy under his tenacious grip and purging it of all life, making himself omnipotent and able to do anything.

But then a charismatic and uber-powerful Jedi named Revan halted his expansions and became a living legend by assuming the title of Dark Lord and bringing the Republic into the verge of collapse, only to make it emerge all the more triumphantly from the struggle, better able to deal with future threats to its existence; but it was at the cost of his own freedom and being.

There's a long story behind that, but the point is, success is more than what winnings we gain - it's also what we do with the gift of life.

I just felt like going on a crazy rant. But being a prophet for our enlightenment and future destiny sure seems fun and full of high-minded purpose!

What's important is that I'm living the life I want to make the life I want.

He's probably the same type as Darth Revan, the great revolutionaries of the galaxy!

Things must often be challenged for them to change, give them an element of dynamism.

One must become wise and powerful to be a guiding light towards our ultimate salvation.

Ultimately, forging the image of perfection is the end, or is it a bridge (and what's perfect)?

1. Why does everything exist?
2. What is the meaning of life?
3. Who are we?
4. Why are we here?
5. Where are we going?
6. What is everything all about?
7. Can we know the mind of God?
8. How do we perceive things?
9. What is real?
10. Do we have free will?
11. What is truth?
12. How many worlds are there?
13. Can we find happiness?
14. What is love?
15. What is virtue?
16. Is there good and evil?
17. What is time?
18. How is space created?
19. How many levels does life have?
20. Is existence finite or infinite?
21. Is there a center to everything?
22. Can anything go beyond infinity?
23. Can existential laws be altered?
24. Can we live in Heaven?
25. Can we achieve eternal life?
26. How should omnipotence be used?
27. What is perfection?
28. Is existence as it should be?
29. Can we transcend all restrictions?
30. Is everything open or determined?
31. Will existence expand or end?
32. Why is life a challenge?
33. Are all things moved by causes?
34. Do alien worlds have different laws?
35. Why is everything always changing?
36. What is possible or impossible?
37. Can prophecies be averted?
38. Do we live in a matrix?
39. Were we created by aliens?
40. What is the value of evidence?
41. Are things as we see them?
42. Does pure reason have limits?
43. What should we have faith in?
44. How do new creations originate?
45. Is mind the prime cause?
46. Are some ways more correct?
47. How important is individuality?
48. Should we be at peace?
49. Can all wars be ended?
50. Is victory a bridge or a goal?

What is the origin of the Universe? What is its first cause? Is its existence necessary? (see monism, pantheism, emanationism and creationism)
What are the ultimate material components of the Universe? (see mechanism, dynamism, hylomorphism, atomism)
What is the ultimate reason for the existence of the Universe? Does the cosmos have a purpose? (see teleology)
Does the existence of consciousness have a purpose? How do we know what we know about the totality of the cosmos? Does cosmological reasoning reveal metaphysical truths? (see epistemology)

Our universe may indeed be a self-contained system, but we haven't penetrated far enough to make conclusions about how or why it exists.

I like to think that consciousness allows us to contruct things mentally and perceive them, build things up to higher complexity and order.

I agree that our minds do have a meta-perspective of sorts, goes beyond the constraints of physics, and has an inner essence separate from the external matrix. They may still act on each other however.

True, we can only see what our biology has programmed us for, but we don't know how far the metaphysical powers of the mind can go.

Well, I don't like to think that all things are necessary; some things just are, even if we can't explain how or why.

We don't even know the basic architectures of our universe - whether it's open and infinite or finite and closed, a positively curved sphere or a negatively curved saddle, or even a flat torus. Surely there's no way we can know what lies beyond it all, at least not yet.

It's usefulness is in that we can have life, both experience it and have a means for preserving it longer. But that's only at our level of existence as we know it. Up above, assuming any of that exists, perhaps our minds could do so much more. I would even say that evolution is an integral factor here, as it makes changes that we can perceive, and can lift us up to higher states.

Reason can carry us to the pinnacle, but only with sufficient faith will we jump off of the mountainside and fly up into the sky.

We don't need to expect scientifically verifiable results for everything before its time has come. Try telling the American Indians from times past to prove that the Earth is round, or that the Earth isn't the center of the universe; that under our present observations is the real fact, but people with limited perceptions would have no means of proving so. As such, they would need fundamental theories first to lay foundations for future explorations.

Pure theories may lack immediate usefulness, but they also have promise for much more development beyond the world as we know it, can come to expand our horizons and vision.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Quoted articles taken from the below post in Infinite Bubble's "The universe and other nonsense" thread:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63752&page=3&p=2154341&viewfull=1#post2154341

Originally posted here. This part hypothesizes and assumes that God does not exist as a real entity in reality outside of the human mind, rather, treats it as a subjective concept created and maintained in the human psyche. (Later parts will contain speculation revolving around the premise that God exists in objective reality, in whatever form that may be.)

Perhaps God as depicted in the Bible is our own construct, but there could be other beings out there that may qualify as having God-powers.

Oh, and if anyone has any thoughts on anything written in any of the posts, I would be very interested to read them!

Well, I'm about to give you some right here.

God fills an emotional role when humans feel backed into a corner. Their conscious or subconscious longing for help within their situation transforms the concept into a sentient being capable of understanding and with the ability to help. Humans’ instinct for safety and desire of easily of getting through difficulties gives God the powers it is known to have, which are incredibly idealistic. At such a point where the human asks for Gods help, the instinct is pushed to the limit, and so wants help with no effort on their part, because at this point they feel helpless. God is a form of idealism which means that not only is our desire for security fulfilled, but also that there is an objective reason for existence; because the fact there really isn’t one unsettles us from the need to know why things happen (evolutionary trait).

I think that higher intelligences exist, but they guide us in very indirect ways; sages and mystics would simply tune into their messages, but whether we take action to follow our visions or feelings is up to us - God can only open the door.

This “God effect” is a concept routed into the subconscious. The experience explained above would in fact dictate action towards securing back equilibrium, but this is not on Gods part. The subconscious often takes up action to subtly gain the individuals desire, in a minute way. This comes quickly or slowly, depending on the individuals mind. The Placebo effect sometimes takes a role in this, particularly with prayers. Action is taking in the physical realm, usually subconsciously, to solve the problem. The end result is usually attributed to God (if the subject is believer).

I won't deny that many perceived miracles could have purely natural explanations that we falsely ascribe to a divine being, but we still shouldn't rule out the possibility that some miracles have God's hand as at least a partial cause.

The concept of God itself comes from an astute awareness gained from intellect that we have been created and are in existence. Reality in human perception dictates that we follow the laws of cause and effect, and with the habit of anthropomorphism, together make up a view that something akin to ourselves (which is essentially what many conceptions of Gods are – an all-powerful superhuman) must have created the universe. We are, after all, creative beings ourselves.

Under a linear view of time, this idea would work; causes would transform into effects in a never ending chain for infinity. However, that's just time and causality as we know them. Perhaps there's so much more to the ways of evolution across space-time than we can even begin to comprehend. As such, I don't jump to conclusions regarding what is and what isn't possible, what can or can't be caused.

Here is a recent theory I thought of not too long ago, which does well to tie in to the above, but may explain more about the core elements of why God is a concept in our minds in the first place, rather than describing the effect it has:

Of course, why would God be invented if he couldn't give us some blessings?

God is a fundamental concept of the human mind, something deep-rooted ever since a certain level of intelligence was reached. Created originally as a side-effect due to our intellect, the concept of God is our projection of evolutionary perfection, and because of our sufficiently advanced minds, we are conscious of this (but only as it coated as God, rather than the underlying perfection, which is unconscious).

God then is an end, and we're trying to build bridges to reach that divine platform, even if we never arrive; the value is in the journey of expansion and evolution.

The first thing to address would be, what is meant specifically by "evolutionary perfection". After all, surely perfection as a concept in itself is subjective. But in this case, it is not - or, as a different perspective, it is a collective subjectivity (which may very well be synonymous to objectivity). Human beings have certain universal traits, one which covers every single one of us in existence. And this is unavoidable, until a large amount of time has passed and large mutational catalysts occur to change the underlying state of each human (perhaps at this point it would be more appropriate to not name them Homo sapiens at all, but a new stage of development).

I see perfection as something that has all promise, can fulfill any wish. I say this because what we each see as perfect is different, so if something can give us anything, perhaps it could get closer towards qualifying as "perfect".

Over time, we have been able to map out the evolutionary processes of the animals on Earth. From this, we can see that the main "aim" for life is to survive. This primary instinct may stem from a natural disposition that cells have, to remain as cells. That is - they want stability; to remain in the same state, and to not break apart and be inanimate once more. Perhaps this is a repulsion against the universe's natural operation of constantly changing its state and being in flux indefinitely. It's almost as if the product of that first reaction, that created life, was "aware" of the fact that it had just a little extra free-will than the inanimate forms that lay around it. Is a state of animation fundamentally greater for matter than inanimation? Reproduction is first priority, as it is essentially copying itself, and that means that "itself" will remain alive, and thus remain stable and nonfluctuating. Perhaps a fundamental trait or law of this universe is that matter "wants" to stay in the same state for as long as possible, until a force acts upon it. Although now I feel I've wandered from the main point slightly, so let's get back to that.

Of course life fights to survive, and that's the law of the jungle; but what if the natural order is corrupted, something we need to rise above and purify? Surely evolution would be a means to achieve this end, assuming my theory is true and can be transcended.

So - to survive, is to defend against opposition. To be powerful, to never be overcome by rivaling forces. Complete control over the environment. From this, we can define evolutionary perfection as a life-form being maximally powerful and being in thorough control of its environment. A life-form that will never die, that has no rivals to fear. That first cell's desire would be finally met - an eternal state; an eternal state without opposition, and with the highest amount of freedom that the universe will allow. As said before, Humans are naturally creative beings - it's what has made us so successful and separates us from other animals. So what would be the ultimate in controlling the environment? What would assure that nothing would ever escape our sight and be our downfall - something we could understand on all levels? It would not merely be being the most successful creatures in the environment, but to actually own an environment. By this, I mean, to create our own. And here, the essence of God lies. Only by creating a universe of our own, would we be able to be completely immune to all dangers; because we'd know everything there is to know about it.

Keep in mind that our greatest achievements may not only be in controlling our objective contexts, but also in exploring our subjective realities, namely inner space and metaphysical transcension.

This is why God is universally ladled with human traits - because God is us. What we want to be. But like the previous section stated, we use it for guidance and help, and again - stability. We want love and acceptance, the reassurance that we aren't alone, and that something is beyond death. Humans naturally want other humans for support. And God, the ultimate human, is our ultimate help. It has an infinite amount of powers and can do anything for us, and keeps the optimism alive that something is beyond death - that someday, we (our genes; future generations) will progress to that stage. A parent of all parents.

There's no way to say the Ultimate God of the Universe is a person, a force, a mind, a metaphor for the laws of nature, or whatever else we can think of; I think your point here makes sense - one thing I disagree about is your lack of faith and your intense focus on pure rationalism. I'm very much for those concepts, but I also think that they alone are incomplete. Surely there's so much more to our world than this mechanical matrix.

 

[RaptorWizard]

The universe might be finite in spatial extend but unbounded, an overall topology of a closed surface, spherical or a donut (torus) in shape. Which topology is correct depends on the average curvature of space. Positive curvature is a sphere, flat curvature is a torus, and negative curvature is a saddle with infinite possible topologies. A spatially infinite universe cannot be a self-contained system, but rather is part of a larger system taking in information from boundaries infinitely far away, the space outside being explicable by what comes in from the world beyond the boundary.

The different possibilities as to the shape of the cosmos:
1. Open and Infinite (Saddle - Negative curvature)
2. Finite and Closed (Sphere - Positive curvature)
3. Digital and Flat (Torus - No curvature)
4. Multi-directional and Eternal (Toroid - Revolving Curvature)

Ventrilo conversation on this subject that I got permission to post:
RaptorWizard: case closed, anyway, i was reading about different geometries for our cosmos yesterday
RaptorWizard: do we have a finite or infinite, closed or open, negatively curved saddle, positively curved sphere, or flat torus
RaptorWizard: shapes for the universe
RaptorWizard: the negative saddle to me looked the most interesting
RaptorWizard: it opens up many more variables and is open to other spaces outside this one
RaptorWizard: thoughts?
superunknown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_torus
superunknown: i just remembered i never finished the video on turning spheres inside out
superunknown: do you think the universe is closed or open?
RaptorWizard: that whirling graphic is interesting
superunknown: yeah
RaptorWizard: i want it to be open, and i have faith it may be, but the evidence amy later say its closed
RaptorWizard: i should make a thread on that actually; how is our universe shaped
superunknown: yes, you should
RaptorWizard: i guess one piece of evidence in favor of istj over istp for you is your focus on well, evidence - mingularity, istp goes by logic even if there could be counter-logical discoveries made
RaptorWizard: he doesnt want the universe to have a metaphorical shape for instance, because its too inconsistent
RaptorWizard: from a rational standpoint
RaptorWizard: anyway, just my opinion, ill get to that thread
superunknown: yeah, i really like the concept of irrational functions
superunknown: rational functions are tethered
superunknown: unaccommodating
superunknown: though i may be that irl, my unconscious self
RaptorWizard: Shape of the Cosmos - is that a good title, or is there an improvement
RaptorWizard: and poll options: negative, positive, flat
RaptorWizard: negative is infinite, positive is closed, and flat - is that the torus?
superunknown: i'm not sure about the flat/torus one
RaptorWizard: how would a flat universe be shaped
superunknown: reading now
superunknown: i wasn't doubting you, i was saying i personally don't know, fyi
RaptorWizard: i dont know either, why i asked - more information is needed
superunknown: ah. yeah, reading now
RaptorWizard: http://www.nbcnews.com/science/weird-findings-suggest-we-live-saddle-shaped-universe-8C11133381
RaptorWizard: ^ supposed evidence for the saddle
superunknown: a flat universe means theroretical parallel can be drawn through any point in space, space doesn't "curve" like einstein predicts
superunknown: I don't know if I buy literal curvature of space
superunknown: i think the universe is flat and digital
RaptorWizard: perhaps so, could negative curvature be a metaphor (and if it is, what kind of metaphor)
superunknown: i think the saddle shaped universe is manifest in the torus
superunknown: http://stanwagon.com/wagon/Misc/HTMLFiles/InvisibleHandshake_8.gif
superunknown: the middle piece is like a chunk taken out of the inner wall of a torus
RaptorWizard: hmm, good point, the torus kind of mixes the flat/digital with the saddle
RaptorWizard: thx, saved the image
superunknown: i know for a while i liked the concept of an eternal, closed universe
superunknown: in constant flux
superunknown: rehashing itself over and over
RaptorWizard: i think thats how nietzsche saw it
superunknown: makes sense, given his conclusions
RaptorWizard: eternal recurrence in never ending cycles
superunknown: i think that's how eastern religions see it also
superunknown: perpetual rebirth
RaptorWizard: is there a way to mix the rebirth, the saddle, and the flat with the torus (or something else)?
superunknown: one sec, i saw a cool pic
superunknown: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...urg_Big_Bang_Big_Bagel_Theory_Howard_Boom.jpg
RaptorWizard: ^ that may be the answer
superunknown: that's what i thought, for a while
superunknown: condensing to maximum density, exploding, condensing, etc
RaptorWizard: it whirls around in cycles, it can move forever, it has a closed system that can be calculated, it has the saddle source for the bang
superunknown: or that idea of a new universe being born every time a black hole is created
superunknown: yeah
superunknown: it makes a bit of intuitive sense, for a system to work that way
RaptorWizard: whats this design called
superunknown: doughnut theory of the universe
RaptorWizard: i think ill argue for that one, but changes can be made along the way if new things emerge
superunknown: i will argue for a similar concept, only flat
RaptorWizard: how would flat donut work
superunknown: i really dislike the concept of geometry being the purest form of reality
RaptorWizard: literal donut?
superunknown: yeah, something like that
superunknown: it'd be like a radial burst from a centralized location
RaptorWizard: what makes geometry incomplete (it could be, why so)
RaptorWizard: the nexus of size
superunknown: yeah. but what exists between sizes?
superunknown: i remember thinking....
RaptorWizard: bathroom
superunknown: ya, brb
RaptorWizard: im posting this conversation into the thread if thats okay
superunknown: yeah, that's cool
superunknown: i was thinking about the wave/particle problem in quantum mechanics
superunknown: i can't remember the thought i had about it, but it was cool...
'TheStarchDefenders' has joined the chat.
RaptorWizard: how does contingency (like in QM) connect with the shape of the cosmos?
superunknown: i have a feeling we simple aren't equipped to probe that level of existence accurately yet
superunknown: hello starch
RaptorWizard: true, QM may be seemingly contingent just because we cant see the causes behind it
superunknown: that, or there is a duality to nature that is irreconcilable
superunknown: but that's been said a dozen times over in science
superunknown: i have faith we will figure it out
Mane: gloves
Mane: the answer is gloves
Mane: sort of
superunknown: metaphorical gloves?
Mane: it's like the thing they have in labs where the gloves are within the walls of a glass box
Mane: to handle materials you can't touch
superunknown: ah, yeah, i remember this
Mane: we need to use the space of our universe like gloves
superunknown: i know the theory of quantum uncertainty has been disproven with a thought experiment
Mane: what thought experiment?
superunknown: something involving two people with boxes that will randomly generate a red or blue cube inside?
superunknown: it's been a while since i read it...
Mane: if we had that - we could "feel" what is outside of our universe, we could possibly even grab something which isn't part of our membrane and manipulate it, possibly even build a probe of sort
RaptorWizard: mane, i want permission to post this entire discussion in a thread, is that okay?
superunknown: maybe the upcoming quantum age will give it to us
RaptorWizard: when do you foresee the QM age coming
Mane: sure
Mane: didn't the QM age start when the universe emerged?
Mane: or you mean in terms of our capacity to manipulate?
Mane: i suppose the stone age started when we manipulated stone..
superunknown: yes, like the atomic age, iron age, etc
superunknown: i think around 2025 is when it's gonna be "mainstream" technology
superunknown: quantum watches, cell phones
Mane: i think we've already had quantum watches
Mane: maybe i am wrong on that one...
superunknown: it'd be interesting if we did, but i haven't heard of it
Mane: what is the watch that they placed on setalites to test the theory of relatively?
superunknown: i know of only one commercially available quantum computer, made by D-Wave
superunknown: atomic clock
Mane: oh right
superunknown: my watch syncs with an atomic clock in georgia daily
Mane: well you have variations of quantum computing that are disputable
Mane: like the google thingy
RaptorWizard: Shape of the Cosmos ~ Understanding the Architectures of our Universe - hows that for a full title
superunknown: i like it
Mane: my watch syncs with the mind of a hippy thinking what time it feels like
superunknown: i didn't hear about that, mane
superunknown: lol
Mane: their where articles over it all over awhile ago
Mane: wired, popsci... those sort of sites
superunknown: yeah
Mane: i do remember D-wave claiming it is not a real quantum computer
superunknown: darn
Mane: but i wasn't sure if its nitpicking about not fitting for a specific theory of how quantum computation should work, or if it's actually in a sense of not having the properties of a quantum computer
Mane: i think the google thing used a more basic binary state system or something like that?
Mane: not sure
Mane: its being awhile ago
RaptorWizard: http://howardbloom.net/the-god-problem-how-a-godless-cosmos-creates/big-bagel-theory/ - Big Bagel Theory
superunknown: i'm not sure, but this year, NASA and Google both partnered with D-Wave to study what they're doing right with their computers
superunknown: Prior to announcing this partnership, NASA, Google, and Universities Space Research Association put a D-Wave computer through a series of benchmark and acceptance tests which it passed.[6] Independent researchers found that D-Wave's computers can solve s
superunknown: solve some problems as much as 3,600 times faster than particular software packages running on digital computers.
superunknown: there's more though, still reading
Mane: i think initially it's going to be like an added hardware piece you shove in server clusters
superunknown: yeah, for weird problems
Mane: not really weird problems
superunknown: i guess i meant nuanced
Mane: i heard that search sorting algorithms can work better in quantum algorithms.
Mane: that's not that weird is it? its one of the most common problems we have to solve
RaptorWizard: The different possibilities as to the shape of the cosmos:
RaptorWizard: 1. Open and Infinite (Saddle - Negative curvature)
superunknown: no, not weird
RaptorWizard: 2. Finite and Closed (Sphere - Positive curvature)
RaptorWizard: 3. Digital and Flat (Torus - No curvature)
RaptorWizard: Multi-directional and Eternal (Toroid - Revolving Curvature)
RaptorWizard: ^ 4
RaptorWizard: are those good poll options
superunknown: yes, i think so
RaptorWizard: cool, ill post the thread now
Mane: wait wasn't it the other way around
Mane: problems with small data sets but large processing run times
Mane: so not search algorithms...
Mane: ok i am clearly not remembering this right
RaptorWizard: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...understanding-architectures-our-universe.html

 

[RaptorWizard]

The quoted articles were written by Infinite Bubble in the following post: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63752&page=3&p=2155027&viewfull=1#post2155027

Perhaps God as depicted in the Bible is our own construct, but there could be other beings out there that may qualify as having God-powers.

What would constitute as a God-power? Would this be merely something perceived as beyond our capabilities, much like the Homo sapien mind is to a gnat or a slug? So then are we Gods, relative to a gnat; or simply more intellectually complex mechanisms? It was in fact under this paradigm of perceiving things beyond us that we did not understand, that God was invented - to fill in the blanks of our understanding. Science progresses and God's influence lessens. Is God then, another entity subjugated to the laws of relativity? And under these terms, is "God" really a relevant descriptor? Perhaps we should give this concept a new label.

Supposedly the classic powers would be those considered "outside" the realm of the material universe, with the ability to manipulate its contents - its effects being within but the cause being outside, and the cause is of course attributed to God. So god is something that is on the "outside". Beings are, as far as we know, are a property of the "inside". Is it fair to call God a being, then? Unless the universe mirrors the structure of God, but then we have to wonder why God is that way and not another, similar to how we question the universes order.

I think that higher intelligences exist, but they guide us in very indirect ways; sages and mystics would simply tune into their messages, but whether we take action to follow our visions or feelings is up to us - God can only open the door.

It would certainly be a monumental surprise to find out that no intelligence greater than ours existed. If we are talking about other material life-forms, e.i. extraterrestrials, then I think they do not care about us or have not noticed us at all. Around 98% of our DNA is shared with chimps. But there is seemingly a huge difference between our intelligence and theirs. So from this, two conclusions can be inferred: either our intelligence has origins in a reason other than genetics, or that the difference between our intelligence is simply not that great. What exactly do we have to preserve our notion of being intelligent creatures - only contrast with our fellow earthlings. By a standard, we might potentially be still primitive creatures. We share many, many traits and habits with our fellow Earth life-forms, yet we brand almost every one of them primitive ourselves. And if we are reasonable primitive, why would more intelligent creatures care about interacting with us, or even conducting a sort of communication. How often do we try to establish a meaningful relationship with a fly batting against the window?

If higher intelligence in this context equates to a divine force then okay, it seems reasonable that they might be effecting us in some way... it's conceivable to believe that such a force could effect all things simultaneously. But it should be noted that intelligence's importance is quite inflated by humans on a whole. Is high intelligence not simply an evolutionary device, an adaptive trait, like gills on a fish, hollowed bones in a bird's wing or thick layers of fat on a penguin? Why elevate it to such a status that intelligence is the be and end all of existence - it is basically the factor that we separate "superior" beings, and lower beings with.

And on the subject of God being considered a being of the highest possible intelligence: what is intelligence? The ability to understand. It is a property of living creatures for them to be able to understand and survive in their environment. So intelligence was developed in creatures because their are unknowns needing to be known to survive.

For God to have the highest possible intelligence is paradoxical. God created the universe, therefore has no need to develop such a thing to survive. So why would God have this property called intelligence - the ability to understand its environment? Unless intelligence or the mind is something separate and not created through complex particle interactions.

I won't deny that many perceived miracles could have purely natural explanations that we falsely ascribe to a divine being, but we still shouldn't rule out the possibility that some miracles have God's hand as at least a partial cause.

If God exists on such an intimate level, then it could well even be playing us like puppets.

Miracles, and the effects of a prayer are two separate things, although not mutually exclusive. The effect, or answering, of a prayer doesn't have to be spectacular or seemingly against the workings of nature, so can easily explained by the unconscious. The concept of God is, I believe, a direct manifestation of the unconscious. Religion is a manifestation of the collective unconsciousness's fears. So the effects of a prayer can be explained away on a fairly rational basis.

But you speak of miracles here. What is perceived as a miracle is coming from either a lack of understanding of the process of it coming into being, or indeed something beyond the laws of known physics. A miracle is almost unanimously described as a "good" event, in the religious sense at least, that enables betterment of its beneficiary. That automatically promotes humans, their ethics, and values, above everything else in the universe. Because what we perceive as good is subjectively good and therefore not a benefit for rarely anything but us.

Under a linear view of time, this idea would work; causes would transform into effects in a never ending chain for infinity. However, that's just time and causality as we know them. Perhaps there's so much more to the ways of evolution across space-time than we can even begin to comprehend. As such, I don't jump to conclusions regarding what is and what isn't possible, what can or can't be caused.

Indeed, but that particular passage pertains to subjective human experience, which I'm sure you'll agree is played out in a linear cause-effect fashion.

Of course, why would God be invented if he couldn't give us some blessings?

If you believe in God, why use "invented", or do you now think it's a human construct? Once again, unless you encompass every other living being in the universe (which hardly anyone who believes in this actually does), God giving us "blessings" (whatever that is) elevates our status above others, which I do not agree with. Does God give blessings to all the bacterium, antelopes, dung beetles, sycamores, and harriers? Or are we "above" these lifeforms? Does God give blessings to all the tapeworms, for them to be able to inhabit their host and grow 30 ft in their intestines without struggle, or even for the Human immunodeficiency virus to swiftly propagate itself with ease? So as you can see, we either elevate human ideals and ethics to be of utmost importance in the universe (or on this planet), which is wholly arrogant, or accept that the universe is utterly neutral (unless you want to go with the idea that there is a God for every life-form that goes against all others, which is ridiculous). If God exists, I believe it is neutral.

God then is an end, and we're trying to build bridges to reach that divine platform, even if we never arrive; the value is in the journey of expansion and evolution.

Not an end, since evolution isn't a progression in the sense that there is a "finishing point" of near-perfection or advancement; evolution is merely adaptation to the current environment that'd enable the most efficient survival. Not really current level -> superior level. Just whatever fits. The features that come about through the next adaptation may be what we perceive as either better or worse than the current model. For example, there are studies that show humans are getting less intelligent (which would be perceived to be worse than the current condition) because of environmental pressure, and there are some studies that show the opposite. My point is that either could happen, and neither is necessarily better or worse.

That said, God being a projection of the unconscious based on "evolutionary perfection" is from the direct correlation between environmental control/domination and evolutionary success through natural selection. It's the qualities that we value that evolution could give us in the greatest of circumstances for the ultimate environmental control. I don't think we'll get anywhere near it to be honest. Not enough control -> more external factors affecting us unwittingly -> suppression and/or sharing of control -> less control.

I see perfection as something that has all promise, can fulfill any wish. I say this because what we each see as perfect is different, so if something can give us anything, perhaps it could get closer towards qualifying as "perfect".

That makes sense.

Of course life fights to survive, and that's the law of the jungle; but what if the natural order is corrupted, something we need to rise above and purify? Surely evolution would be a means to achieve this end, assuming my theory is true and can be transcended.

Isn't corruption really just a dissonance against the order that we like to impose on the world? If the universe is in a state of what we'd classify as "corrupted", then that is simply the way things have turned out from the previous conditions - there isn't anything inherently wrong with it (except we perceive it so). I'm not sure what you mean exactly by rising above and purifying something. I don't - as you probably have gathered - agree with the idea of universal ethics, which this idea lays its foundation upon. It would be incredibly interesting though, if it was found out that there are universally objective ethics.

Keep in mind that our greatest achievements may not only be in controlling our objective contexts, but also in exploring our subjective realities, namely inner space and metaphysical transcension.

That may be the next level so to speak - to eventually transcend the perimeters of the physical. After all, it could be said that the physical universe is merely a single perceptual vantage-point. If "physical" is just sensory impressions, which don't actually exist as pure forms, then physical reality isn't reality anyway. But then we can ask, "what is the real reality?" And that's one question that is fundamentally unanswerable to us, in this state (if the mind is actually separate from the body, it's plausible to consider that all vantage-points would be eradicated in favour of "pure" existence. It may even transcend existence.

There's no way to say the Ultimate God of the Universe is a person, a force, a mind, a metaphor for the laws of nature, or whatever else we can think of; I think your point here makes sense - one thing I disagree about is your lack of faith and your intense focus on pure rationalism. I'm very much for those concepts, but I also think that they alone are incomplete. Surely there's so much more to our world than this mechanical matrix.

This is true I guess. Like I said before, I think God has to lie outside, or have a sort of disconnection from the direct universe, to be classified reasonably as a God. If God is part of the universe itself, then God should be replaced by a more appropriate concept. So if God is a force, it should be called a force of some description; if it is a metaphor for the laws of nature, call it the laws of nature. After all, in the past people thought the sun and moon where gods. I just think God as a term is unnecessary, considering its religious roots and implications. If God is a person, then it'd imply that humans, or life as a whole, is of greater importance in the universe than other structures (which is a biased assumption that should be avoided unless evidence necessitates its truth).

I don't lack faith, it's is just religious faith that I lack. I have faith in science, the human race, and the beauty of the universe as it is, without the need of a creator. Rationalism is limited, but it's the best we can do from what we have currently been given to understand the universe with. Perhaps other methods will prevail with more intellectual advancement. But until then...

Maybe there is more to our world than simple mechanical interactions. But I think it makes people uncomfortable to think that it is purely mechanical. That is really why religion still persists. But I personally think it would be elegant to be that way, with no intervention from "mystical forces".

 

[RaptorWizard]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64966&page=2&p=2155609&viewfull=1#post2155609

Originally Posted by alcea rosea
In my opinion, certain roads are determined but choice between the roads is given to us. So, I think people have certain amount of free will and freedom of choice but there are also coincidences, things that happen no matter if you want them to happen or not. These coincideces could also be said to be things that are determined for us. So, I believe some things are given to us and some things we can decide.
This makes a lot of sense. Maybe we can't choose our contexts quite so much as we can choose what we do within those contexts, at least at our current level.


Originally Posted by Scheherezade
free will is not real, to be blunt, but if you consider free will the commencement in the brain of the process of a decision that you consider to be an expression of your free will, then indeed it is free will
Okay, so I guess you think that our own mental actions move us, even if those operations were determined by a prior cause.


Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble
No, it is most likely illusory. Mechanisms in the brain are based on particle interaction through electrochemical processes. As such, like Hawking states in the quote below, we are governed by the laws of physics just like every other object in the universe. Sense of free will emerges due to the vast amount of factors that impact any given situation or state, most of which are not perceivable directly.
Indeed, it is too complex to map out, but that doesn't mean it's all destined beforehand to go absolutely one way with 100% conclusiveness.


The laws of physics are already determined. All that is needed now is a set of previous conditions that will influence the next state. We cannot know all the many parts of the previous condition, which is why it feels like we are free, when in actual fact the previous conditions determine the next event in a very specific way which is inevitable.
Keep in mind that knowing the fundamental laws of the universe doesn't mean we can apply them for a case study of every object in space, but it could give us very accurate clues as to the overall structure of the entire cosmos and where it's destined on a broad level to evolve.


An individuals personality, exact placement of particles in the brain, and millions of environmental factors all play a part. It feels like choice, but it's really the sheer amount of factors that go into the initial (previous) state that add together to create the exact outcome. If you are outside somewhere with a cricket ball, for instance, and you wonder whether to throw it across the field or not, it isn't really your choice. If you do throw it, that's because many conditions triggered that response, and if you don't, it's because of the same reason. Even the thought that predicated the "choice" was created through physical/electrochemical interactions, subject to other external physical systems.
I think you're right about purely physical systems being entirely determined, but that doesn't mean there aren't "meta"-physical systems out there that may act under different laws that are perhaps even subject to alteration. Perhaps metaphysics may play a part in what physical forms we assume upon our incarnations (if you believe in that stuff).


There's just so many factors that are incorporated into the initial state. Think of science experiments. They are overly simplified and isolated in comparison to an entire present state, but it's the same principle. If the setup is exactly the same each time, the end result will also be the same. (Not taking into account outside influences such as air humidity etc.)
This is because we can count on the same precedents applying in every case; that's why we can formulate laws. Of course, I've always seen laws as something to be broken (and then reconstructed into new forms). That's philosophy however, and not physics as we currently know it.


I should also mention that just because free will is an illusion, it doesn't mean that the universe is completely determined. Even if God plays dice, we are still not in control of them. Or perhaps it is determined, and the whole universe was set out to go precisely in a single direction from the initial state of the BB, but QM makes this unlikely.
It's good to see you considering alternative possibilities here; it seems like you think it's possible that random quantum events can allow for a bit of contingency, but that it still operates independently of our wills - and since our wills can't (under your view) control them, then we might as well just say that we don't have free will, as we can't determine events, let alone self-determine our own actions.


This quote is in regards to quantum mechanics, not free will. Even in the seemingly free-will-accommodating paradigm of QM, we are still subject to the laws of it, which are so minuscule in its effects relative to our scale that it is almost irrelevant on most occasions. Hawking actually believes that free will is nonexistent. To quote from The Grand Design:
Yes, I remember reading the Grand Design 3 years ago. Both of those fellas seem to have similar views and ways of thinking to yourself.


Originally Posted by INTP
Lets put it this way, if during the big bang something would had been just slightly different, at least some particular atom somewhere wouldnt had formed like it did. So that small difference which one atom has isnt that relevant during that time when it happened to the overall picture of things. However that small difference of one atom would most likely had made something different because the atoms interaction with other atoms would had happened differently. Basically the whole thing is just one big chain reaction that spreads wider and wider, and even subtle differences to some of those reactions at one point might get amplified over time and one difference of an atom might cause whether the star had formed where all the gold in our known universum is from was ever formed or not and without gold there might not even be earth as we know it(since there is quite a lot of gold in our planets core which most likely has at least some small effect on earths magnetic fields and our whole civilization would had gone differently is that gold wasnt there).
As I've said before, your logic often overwhelms my mind. I think though that you're depicting the "Butterfly Effect" (small changes lead to big consequences) in detail.


So if something would had gone even slightly differently during the big bang, at least something in our current world would be different. Even if there are some form or multiverse thing going on, that wouldnt rule out the fact that everything which now exists, exists and is the way it is because things were as they were during the big bang or some multibang or what ever. Even if there is some big bearded guy over the clouds who knows magix, the reasons for it being are caused by similar chain reaction which i explained.
Your big bearded guy, or "God" you seem to think is also subject to laws above his own powers, that of course (in your view) predetermine what God determines to do with our universe, which in turn predetermines what we want to determine with our own willpower.


TLDR version: yes all your thoughts are physical reactions to begin with and the physical reactions which caused your thoughts were dictated by the big bang.
But we don't know if the brain is the sole source of our life force; I know that we can stimulate the brain to make us do things, but that doesn't exclude the possibility of say a spirit in negative matter or whatever giving our brains (receivers) commands. Just like technology can be a controller for the brain, so to could our "higher selves" be guiding our brains.


Originally Posted by superunknown
The quantic dyanamicism of the human mind broke the universe free of its tether!
This view sounds more promising; you're allowing for the idea of "breaking chains" (a possibility the above posters were more closed off from).


I used to like that concept, that the universe was open to future possibility but closed once past - that was my zipper of reality theory.
I myself still subscribe to this theory (even if you don't anymore), but I'm not sure a zipper is the best metaphor; maybe it's more of a "multi-faceted crystallization".


Originally Posted by Saturned
In regards to humanity: We have free will. Saying otherwise is rationalizing away blame and consequence of actions. "The universe made me do it!" Etc
Yes, it would seem more rational to act as if we do have free will, regardless of whether or not (or at what level) we actually have it.


If you want to talk about the free will of physics... Then no.
Physical mechanisms by themselves are in bondage, but perhaps metaphysical forces could act on the physical.


But as always there are obvious cause and effects. Become a magical vat of pudding and the only outcome is to be consumed by gluttonous forces.
Your reference to "pudding" (which can be shaped) may actually capture much more than you think it does. It's like there's a formless material before ourselves, some kind of wishing well or pool that can transform into any entity imaginable (and substances like this aren't exclusively solid; they can take other states and assume more "floaty" forms).


Originally Posted by Nicodemus
I talked about it a while ago with the late erm: here.
Okay, well I guess I can springboard this to the idea of whether or not the past is determined. Maybe reality has various "save files", kind of like how in video games they can be repeatedly accessed to get different results upon directing the game with alternative commands. That's just a random idea; I'm not saying it has any basis in reality - but then again, we really don't know!


Originally Posted by JAVO
Everyone has free will except those who have relinquished it by limiting themselves to predeterminism, whether ordered or chaotic.
This simple statement is fairly elegant - willpower is all about tenaciously handling ideas that we envision and seizing the moment to mobilize new actions made immanent, transforming old worlds and making new ones spring into being. Of course, to move mountains, we have to believe that it can be done, even if it takes eons for its accomplishment.


Originally Posted by mingularity
Disclaimer: I didn't read anything written above, except the thread title.
Freedom used with little effort and full honesty is better that little effort and no honesty - at least under the former, there is promise for improvement and a respect for truth.


That said, we know we don't know enough to know whether or not we have free will.
I am in complete agreement with you here. We're still way too ingnorant to have definitive conclusions that can actually describe our cosmos with full clarity of vision.


That said, would you do anything differently either way?
Well, if we did actually discover the existence of free will at any level, surely we could harness some tricks in its arsenal, whereas if we went on ignorant about it and/or free will were nonexistent, then our horizons will remain clouded.


Originally Posted by Stanton Moore
First off, I am aware of the research that states that ideas are formed around 300 milliseconds (or whatever the exact number is) before they reach consciousness, and I understand the concept of biological determinism.
I understand that in terms of physiology we differ biologically from other animals only in the details.
I also understand that recent research has shown that animals possess consciousness (although this is obvious to any human who is owned by a dog), and that our own self awareness can be seen as an extension of this naturally occurring phenomenon. Again, we differ from animals in degree.
However, I find the ridged adherence to biological determinism to have missed the most salient point: that human consciousness is not only different in degree, but also in kind. The works of Einstein, Newton, Tolstoy, Michelangelo, Nietzsche, Curie, Schumann, Gandhi, Darwin, Beethoven, Verdi, Yousafzai, etc, etc, are not the product of biological processes directly, but of are merely underpinned by them. There is no biological necessity for the theory of relativity, or a symphony, or great works of kindness, or most other things that are uniquely human.
As a person who can feel and think and is conscious, I also find biological determinism to be anti-social. It may feel comforting to sum up all human activity in this way, it may seem as if the unsettling vagaries of life and the world are somehow obviated by this kind of ‘willful’ (sic) reduction of possibilities to mere processes, but in the end, it produces nothing that extends humanity or enriches it, or increases understanding or civility. It is rather a call to Machiavellian self-interest, to dog-eat-dog politics and violence (which of course, we see as natural). I prefer to think more of my species and the individuals in it as more than animals with self interest maximizers at the top of our spines.
Gratuitous smiley:
This is a great testament in favor of having faith in higher causes, of acting with the force and feeling of our true character. This is the "I am that I am", the personal God of love. With the power of love on our side, anything is possible!

 

[RaptorWizard]

I think it's saying that the future is open to our alterations, but once acted upon, the initial choices remain set. In quantum mechanics, a similar spectrum of possibilities exists, but it becomes a definitive result upon observations, chosen out of many other factors that, under different chance results would have unfolded towards another destination.

All future transformations are contingent with how the present shapes out, and free will gives us the power to direct its ultimate course. Free will, assuming we actually have it would be the random variable and the unknown factor which determines the future. Paradoxically, we could say that the indeterminate nature of free will can command what comes to happen and, with sufficient force of will could theoretically by the guidance of our determination make any event imminent.

Perhaps this is the prime cause for all actions that happen everywhere, that they are moved by some kind of mind, maybe even by minds above our own. Under a system along these lines, any vision could become real, and the present would have all promise for those who seize it with the right tenacity to become anything. Ultimately, my personal conclusion is that everything is determined by free will.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I admit, many factors are determined, and it's good I think as you say how QM makes for more uncertainties, no matter how we (under our current methods) measure it out.
I guess you think that even if there is some randomness out there in the QM, because we can't control its results, we may as well just say that it's determining our actions.
Well, we can calculate whatever is in our scope with the equations, but it wouldn't work to know how everything would interrelate in physical systems all across the universe (unless you're God and can see everything).
The brain is a purely physical system; it's just a sack of meat that acts as a sort of gateway between mind and body. I take the position that we have 3 bodies actually: physical, spiritual (negative matter), and energetic (a binder between the 2). I'm not saying that as fact, but I think this explanation may actually capture quite a bit. If you want my opinion on physics, I'll just say that it's both the most fundamental, and least significant of the cosmic systems.
This is actually a very good question. As of now, like I mentioned, this idea exists pretty much as a philosophy. It just seems like there might be certain barriers out there that, if sufficient power were harnessed, could be surpassed. And from a higher vantage point, perhaps we could stop being chess pieces, and start becoming chess players. But right now, that idea is way ahead of its time (assuming it has any promise in the first place); the philosophical position is that we need to rise above our restrictions, become more free and able to see or do anything.
If our minds were powerful enough, we may discover otherwise, but as for now, the quantum events control us.
I think they have great ideas, but I also think that their ideas don't go far enough.
It's a bit hard to follow your deductive chain here, but I agree that faith is a good connector between various contexts. It can give us proofs of higher truths and realities, but we have to catch those glimpses by intuitive means, not by rational means. It seems like we also put our faith into things that we love, into things which have good promise and strong evidence for future returns.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Human Knowledge Foundations and Limits - http://humanknowledge.net/
A New Integral Paradigm - http://kheper.net/integral/integral_paradigm.html
Journey in Being New World - http://horizons-2000.org/Journey in Being-New World.html
Transcending the Matrix Control System - http://montalk.net/
Cognitive Theoretic Model of the Universe - http://www.ctmu.org
Esoteric Science - http://www.esotericscience.org
World Mysteries - http://www.world-mysteries.com/
The Life and Teachings of Thoth Hermes Trismegistus - http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta08.htm
Ancient Knowledge and Wisdom of the Arcanum - http://www.pymander.com/AETHEREAL/ARCANE~1.htm
Hermetic Source Info - http://www.hermeticsource.info/
Hermetic Philosophy and the Mystery of Being - http://www.plotinus.com/mysticism1.htm
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[RaptorWizard]

1. I'm not sure our minds are at miniature levels, but they could have components operating within the quantum realm.
2. I agree that our minds could form connections across vast distances, come to form a kind of universal "cosmic" consciousness.
3. I think the "universal uploads" you mention are supported by findings accessed within the Akashic Records, but life I hold is a much better conduit for integrating these experiences.

I'm very open to these kinds of mystical questions, but in regards to them, it's very dangerous to jump to conclusions.
Many of the great rationalists from our past I know were also greatly interested in the paranormal and unexplained.

Eva Brann: "If Heraclitus was a physicist, he, like Newton, was at the same time also a mystic."
J.M. Keynes: "Newton was not the first of the age of reason. He was the last of the magicians."

As for my opinion on past lives, they can very well be integrated into our present awareness, but our continuing development is a much better goal.

What is beauty? Beauty as outlined at the following website http://humanknowledge.net/Thoughts.html#Aesthetics is the quality of being pleasing to apprehend with the senses or contemplate with the mind.

It seems that we may find exquisite beauty captured elegantly within the order of nature, or perhaps even displayed from programs of our own creation. So maybe it's connected to appreciating things that we perceive, using them as inspirations for rendering new things into being.

To illustrate this idea in a simple metaphor, a man born blind would be a poor painter, though he may be particularly attuned to the wonders of music, and as such may have promise to compose fantastic symphonies. But we of course don't know the full spectrum of human perception, or how far it could possibly go. If we were to see further, then perhaps our old views of beauty could be completely revolutionized.

 

[RaptorWizard]

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[RaptorWizard]

As Newton said, "You have to make the rules, not follow them."

The ideal “box” should transform its own constraints in accordance with the context and what it contains, come to form a “best fit”.
Existence began with a witness. – The witness made everything possible with the “word” (logos [reason]; the “codes” of creation).

"I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith. Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith. The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transformation. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they accomplish."
―Darth Revan's avatar

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."
―Jolee Bindo, to Revan, when discussing love

Stronger than The Force, the power of love is!

Power used correctly can actually be a wonderful virtue. It can make the world a new and improved place. That's a critical step in making us great it seems, having potential and unleashing it in the right direction.

Yes, it's all about boxes. Various boxes operate under different laws with other contents contained within, and we can shift boxes in and out, come to "meta-perspectivize" the contexts.

That might actually be a good thing in a way - seeing people in terms of who they are and how they present themselves rather than as absolutes.

Time, at its most basic level, I believe reflects change. It gives things life, since if everything went static, then there would be no unfolding events to experience. But when viewed more philosophically, I can't even begin to grasp the true essence of time. Is time just an arrow extending infinitely in 1 straight direction, or is there something much more to it?

Personally, I take the latter view. It could be seen as a river of sorts, changing speed, whirling in endless spirals, branching off into alternate channels, fluctuating through different depths, ever in motion, and so forth. Perhaps it's also like an acentric labyrinth, without any clear beginning or end, going into all kinds of paradoxical configurations.

Ultimately, time may be so intricate, that even the wisest beings in existence cannot fully visualize what will happen. Maybe it's more like a web of contingencies, with all kinds of "what if" questions. I guess we need to see things in terms of questions, including time. Einstein after all says that everything relative. Time and its perceived changes must be determined by the shifting of contexts.

It may be much like swapping boxes around, each with different laws and items of various designs. Presents come in literal packages, and the metaphorical packages just described also have within them a gift, the "present" time. If we can unleash the present, then there's no telling what wonders may be wrought undreampt of in our time!

If we're talking about building constructs up to the heavens, splashing our paths with sparkling auras, and ascending up to meet the angels of gold, then sure, let's get started!

The first task we need to accomplish is the advancement of universal enlightenment, making our program evolve to better levels and being able to integrate our many unique powers in peace. Of course, we should also be individuals with our own independent life purposes and personal fulfillment as well.

We can even compete and unleash chaos to climb the mountains ahead. Keep in mind though that there's a fine line between open-minded explorations when we take on challenges, and blind aggression; the former can help us to see new things, while the latter leads to directionless destruction.

You have to make the rules, not follow them; I tell this to myself almost as a ritual that I am the law! Have faith in your own powers, keep progressing, and believe that any heights can with the right determination and patience on our parts be reached. If we have enough faith and force of will, then we can accomplish the great and the impossible.

It may be much like God as the chessmaster, moving the subjects within his game around as pieces, using them to achieve well-outlined goals. One day, if a man can conquer the mind of God, then we could overthrow this corrupt world system and forge all of the old foundations anew, become the masters of the game, free from all restrictions and able to do anything.

Let's look at a quote from Nietzsche to sum much of this up, as taken from the following page at my website: http://raptorwizard.webstarts.com/axioms.html

"The will is a world architect and composer, the will is a world power and mover. The world is shaped in the image of our wills and by the power of our wills. Will has essentially the nature of a force. Like all forces, will has a magnitude and a direction, and just like things move in the direction of the strongest force, things move in the direction of the strongest will. Whenever you loose something, you faced a greater will and were overpowered by it. If you want something to happen strongly enough, if the world wants something to happen strongly enough, then it is going to happen. The will is a creator. Will is a living organism, it grows and develops along with the individual. Weak individuals are characterized by a weak will or lack of will. Ill people are known by an ill will or a destructive will. Hence the presence and development of will is absolutely essential for personal and spiritual ascension. The key to the higher and diviner life is a strong and healthy will, a will to improve, a will to exceed, a will to life, but most importantly a will to ascend. The seed transforms into a flower by a will to ascend in the instrument. The will to ascend is an elevator to the higher levels of being, a key to unlock the higher potentials of life and a power to manifest them. I do want to climb a high mountain today!" - Friedrich Nietzsche

I don't ever wish to annihilate the powerful bonds that can be forged between a man and a woman, or even the essential connections between people in general. Good character and true love I believe give our world a life force to be cherished by all. As such, any kinds of operations meant to alter the basic foundations of sex I would be completely opposed to.

Still, it might be interesting if the process of generating offspring were to be different, as it seems kind of gross to me that babies shoot right out of people covered in nasty slime, not to mention how long the process takes for the baby to grow, both within the body and upon being born. I sure as hell know that I don't want to give me penis any vasectomies, but we could explore alternative possibilities as to how we develop across our biological lifespans.

There's something wierd about life, because much of it is suffering, yet we work so hard to preserve it. Perhaps it's because we fear the idea of death, of not being able to transform the world or improve our spiritual progression before it's too late. I guess we could deduce then that we need to unlock the secrets of life, of how we evolve and what we are meant to be. Many amazing adventures await our arrival!