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  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Why do you need a reverse universe? There are domains or competencies in which women are believed to have the edge, men can compete on that if they are interested.
    But sexism will likely make them less interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or people could be themselves. Of all the feminisms the iFeminists or Individual Feminists are among the ones I think most legitimate too.

    My point about feminism, or any of the so called "liberation ideologies", is that there needs to be some correlate or relationship between equality as an abstract theory and equality in fact, do you understand? Otherwise for the either historically or presently dominant group and subordinate group equality will most likely be an imposition resisted or concession given, both of which are going to disatisfactory to each.
    With men in the dominant position, they are not often seen as having anything to compete for. A man seeking a traditionally feminine quality would not be challenged so much as shamed. The issue I'm point out is that while there is a need for both sides to break down the gender barrier, there is definitely not equal incentive for it to be broken down. It's one thing to concede a power to another group, it's another to change your own identity to one more like the group you would perceive yourself as conceding to. For this, I'm not sure your strategy can do anything.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    But sexism will likely make them less interested.
    Perhaps yeah.


    With men in the dominant position, they are not often seen as having anything to compete for. A man seeking a traditionally feminine quality would not be challenged so much as shamed. The issue I'm point out is that while there is a need for both sides to break down the gender barrier, there is definitely not equal incentive for it to be broken down. It's one thing to concede a power to another group, it's another to change your own identity to one more like the group you would perceive yourself as conceding to. For this, I'm not sure your strategy can do anything.
    I wouldnt say it would do anything because I dont believe you need to merge or lose your identity in order for there to be equality. I actually think this is the opposite of equality. Its uniformity and I've talked at length about it before but I've heard the idea as plainly stated as this before.

    I guess this is what puts me on a fundamentally and permanently adversarial footing with so called liberalism.

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wouldnt say it would do anything because I dont believe you need to merge or lose your identity in order for there to be equality. I actually think this is the opposite of equality. Its uniformity and I've talked at length about it before but I've heard the idea as plainly stated as this before.

    I guess this is what puts me on a fundamentally and permanently adversarial footing with so called liberalism.
    I wouldn't ask every individual to literally have the same personality, but I do think that outside of how we condition people, there is little meanginful identity as a man or woman. You have the practical reality of your primary and secondary physical sex characteristics, and you have an innate self-identifyer which will make you comfortable or uncomfortable with your physical form. Outside of that, I don't believe in any gender identity to preserve and thus see no threat in eroding it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I wouldn't ask every individual to literally have the same personality, but I do think that outside of how we condition people, there is little meanginful identity as a man or woman. You have the practical reality of your primary and secondary physical sex characteristics, and you have an innate self-identifyer which will make you comfortable or uncomfortable with your physical form. Outside of that, I don't believe in any gender identity to preserve and thus see no threat in eroding it.
    Yeah, I dont think you're right. I've never been able to believe the reductionist versions of human nature, whether its behaviourism or, it would seem, liberalism and feminism as you understand it.

  5. #25
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wouldnt say it would do anything because I dont believe you need to merge or lose your identity in order for there to be equality. I actually think this is the opposite of equality. Its uniformity and I've talked at length about it before but I've heard the idea as plainly stated as this before.
    But lark you're ignoring that idea I've tried to express that the identification as psychologically feminine is inherently inferior.

    People should find identity and sense of themselves as individual in their free elements, not their determined ones.
    wails from the crypt.

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