feminism

[prplchknz]

Have you guys ever been to Europe? lots of non feminist women don't shave are you serious? and you call me closed minded?

MISDIRECtION this has nothing to do with the thread we never said anything about people in europe. so you're assuming we did. dude seriously....

you're not fighting fair at all. I don't want to play if you're gonna sling slanderous mud

and yes I've been to europe. and you're actually contradicting yourself. btw

 

[jixmixfix]

MISDIRECtION this has nothing to do with the thread we never said anything about people in europe. so you're assuming we did. dude seriously....

you're not fighting fair at all. I don't want to play if you're gonna sling slanderous mud

and yes I've been to europe. and you're actually contradicting yourself. btw

How am I contradicting myself? and why?, do people in Europe not live on this planet?

 

[jixmixfix]

It's still generally not considered acceptable/attractive for women to forego shaving in the USA, though. If people are challenging that here by doing what they want- what's the big deal?

Not a big deal at all just don't claim you're a feminist simply by not shaving. My guess is that a true feminist would be involved in creating change by other non superficial means. My concern is that Americans tend to be superficial. Their image is so important to them that they classify themselves into a market or a niche. Americans are the biggest sheep of them all these days no one stands up for what they believe in, it's all controlled by corporations telling you how to behave through the media. Instead you are classified by your market group so you can buy and support the machine.

 

[Lexicon]

Not a big deal at all just don't claim you're a feminist simply by not shaving. My guess is that a true feminist would be involved in creating change by other non superficial means. My concern is that Americans tend to be superficial. Their image is so important to them that they classify themselves into a market or a niche. Americans are the biggest sheep of them all these days no one stands up for what they believe in, it's all controlled by corporations telling you how to behave through the media. Instead you are classified by your market group so you can buy and support the machine.

@bold- You're assuming they're not just because they're challenging an element of imposed expectations of them by [not] altering their appearance, are you not? Sure it's easy to get grouped in with stupid people who just bitch about their oppression/hatred of men, & all they do is fail to shave, but again.. it's painfully obtuse to assume you know those what those people do with their spare time. I'm sure some of them are active in the feminist community.

I get the feeling you're just overall aggravated and jaded by things around you. I can't say I blame you, but at the same time, a lot of people have more depth than you might be willing to give them credit for, at first glance.

 

[jixmixfix]

@bold- You're assuming they're not just because they're challenging an element of imposed expectations of them by [not] altering their appearance, are you not? Sure it's easy to get grouped in with stupid people who just bitch about their oppression/hatred of men, & all they do is fail to shave, but again.. it's painfully obtuse to assume you know those what those people do with their spare time. I'm sure some of them are active in the feminist community.

I get the feeling you're just overall aggravated and jaded by things around you. I can't say I blame you, but at the same time, a lot of people have more depth than you might be willing to give them credit for, at first glance.

Capitalist society puts a lot of emphasis on image and marketing unlike in other countries like Europe where it doesn't matter as much things are sort of more accepted overall. Not conforming to "image" aka hairy armpits to me sounds more like a rebellious attention seeking way of disagreeing with the system. You're right I could be wrong with my assumptions simply due to the fact I don't know them well enough but for me it raises suspicion as to what their true motivations are.

 

[Mole]

Feminism is an analysis of power relations between women and men.

Of course talking about body hair is trivialising this analysis, just as patriarchy trivialises women.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Would you like a guy with a hairy back or chest? Isn't the trend now days for both men and women to shave?

Do you live in the U.S.? I ask this, because I was not aware of a trend requiring men to share body hair. And beards have made a comeback among generation Y, deservedly so.

If anyone would ask me to shave my body hair, I would tell them to fuck off. I'm more negotiable about the beard, but I prefer it, and I think it's actually softer then a chin full of stubble.

I don't particular care if a woman has hairy arms or legs. It honestly does not bother me. The only hair on a woman that would really bother me would be facial hair. I think that's fair, because it's not something that's common in women, so it's somewhat less arbitrary than legs, and god forbid, bush. I can't be the only guy who is turned on by bush. It's just so primal.

I'm talking about the 90's alt rock band, of course.

 

[Coriolis]

What does having hairy arm pits and hairy legs have to do with feminism I fail to see this.

Whether to shave one's armpits and legs is a matter of personal taste, just like what one wears, how one styles one's hair, whether one uses makeup or gets a tattoo, etc.

How much choice one has in such aspects of personal appearance is a decent indicator of how much personal freedom one enjoys. A feminist who dislikes hairy armpits and legs will probably express herself in other ways.

 

[murkrow]

Dude you had better pray no feminist you date ever reads this.

 

[Nijntje]

Not all feminists do the "don't shave". I know a few (it happens when you do liberal arts at uni) and some are of the symbolic anti-shave-don't-conform-to-societal-and-media-ascribed-forms-of-beauty, others do shave. It's about the ability to express yourself without having to conform to specific views.

My lack of shaving in winter is pure laziness. I mean, it's cold, i'm in pants or jumpers ALL THE TIME, no one see's my skin besides the poor bastard who has to sleep with me.

Plus, on a personal note (if it's oversharing - sorry), i have short, fine, blonde body hair, all of it, so you don't really even see leg or pit hair unless you're up close. I think if i had darker body hair i would be more motivated to keep it off, as i do prefer (personally) the look of bare skin. But i don't so i'm lazy.

 

[Typh0n]

Dude you had better pray no feminist you date ever reads this.

But he wouldnt date them - they have body hair, remember.

 

[jixmixfix]

Do you live in the U.S.? I ask this, because I was not aware of a trend requiring men to share body hair. And beards have made a comeback among generation Y, deservedly so.

If anyone would ask me to shave my body hair, I would tell them to fuck off. I'm more negotiable about the beard, but I prefer it, and I think it's actually softer then a chin full of stubble.

I don't particular care if a woman has hairy arms or legs. It honestly does not bother me. The only hair on a woman that would really bother me would be facial hair. I think that's fair, because it's not something that's common in women, so it's somewhat less arbitrary than legs, and god forbid, bush. I can't be the only guy who is turned on by bush. It's just so primal.

I'm talking about the 90's alt rock band, of course.

No I don't live directly in the U.S. The attractive hairy man phase sorta died off in the late 80's early 90's (David Hasslehoff) usually now days in the media you will see some bulk guy completely shaved especially in sports like pro wrestling and MMA were the guys have to take their shirts off.

 

[Vasilisa]

Knock off the flame war, this goes for reps, too.

 

[SD45T-2]

@bold- You're assuming they're not just because they're challenging an element of imposed expectations of them by [not] altering their appearance, are you not? Sure it's easy to get grouped in with stupid people who just bitch about their oppression/hatred of men, & all they do is fail to shave, but again.. it's painfully obtuse to assume you know those what those people do with their spare time. I'm sure some of them are active in the feminist community.

I get the feeling you're just overall aggravated and jaded by things around you. I can't say I blame you, but at the same time, a lot of people have more depth than you might be willing to give them credit for, at first glance.

Why must you be so reasonable and deprive us of precious drama?!

 

[chickpea]

I could have gone on a day trip to a river yesterday but it was too short notice and I didnt have a razor and haven't shaved in a couple weeks so I didn't go I felt kinda stupid about it.

 

[Ivy]

Buncha posts moved to the OT thread. murkrow banned from thread.

 

[Chiharu]

Well, I think it's sort like how a guy could shave or not shave and no one would particularly care. But if a woman doesn't shave it's "disgusting" or "gross". It's just another double standard.

I shave my legs because I like the way it feels, but if I had my way I wouldn't shave under my arms. I only do it because I exercise a lot. It kind of hurts, and I have dark shadows, anyway. I think body hair is kind of sexy. And besides, the same men who are all "I like girls in sweat pants and 'no' makeup, just looking natural," can't fathom a woman keeping her natural body hair. It's less a "feminist issue" and more an "I hate stupid social constructs" thing.

 

[ygolo]

I know this thread started out as a discussion about body hair and feminism.

But, I wanted to see if perhaps people wanted to talk about it broader context (feminism, not body hair).

I am curious, mainly, in how feminism fits in generally within the context of human rights, reproductive rights, equality, and sexuality.

I see women's rights as a good exemplar of human rights around the globe. Especially, in cases where oppression, and lack of freedom are the paramount issues.

I also think I have a good understanding of feminism's relationship to reproductive rights and equality. I think the only people who disagree with them do so for religious or cultural reasons.

I am, however, confused about its relationship to sexuality.

I read about 2nd and 3rd wave feminism. The characature is that one deems sexual imagery as exploitive of women, and the other sees it as a potential means of empowerment.

Any thoughts on the above? Anyone with deeper insights into this?

 

[Mole]

I read about 2nd and 3rd wave feminism. The characature is that one deems sexual imagery as exploitive of women, and the other sees it as a potential means of empowerment.

Any thoughts on the above? Anyone with deeper insights into this?

If sexual imagery is pornography, we know what to think, because pornography is the graphic representation of the brothel.

We have made a first step in improving the brothel by legally registering sex workers so they can unionise, are subject to health and safety regulations, and are protected by police.

The second step has been made by Sweden, that while keeping sex work legal, the purchase of sex is illegal.

The purpose and effect of steps 1 and 2 is to limit the power of men and increase the power of women, one step at a time.

 

[Coriolis]

I know this thread started out as a discussion about body hair and feminism.

But, I wanted to see if perhaps people wanted to talk about it broader context (feminism, not body hair).

I am interested in the broader question of appearance, going beyond body hair to clothing, (head) hairstyles, jewelry, piercings, body art, even colors used. There is less objection nowadays to men wearing earrings, or women with tattoos. But a man in a skirt is still mostly viewed as a spectacle (unless it's a kilt), while a woman can get away with wearing traditionally masculine clothing. Then there is the question I raised elsewhere, of why in a given setting, women dress to leave much more exposed skin than men. Why? Why to all of it??? What if anything do these choices say about inherent male/female differences, or cultural conditioning, or feminism/rebellion?