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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Earning a living

    What are your thoughts about earning a living, is there a philosophical and spiritual side to it or is it just a means to another end?

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    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I used to think it was just a 'meh' thing. But I think the spiritual and philosophical side to it what you define as 'earn your living'. Just making money and paying bills? For some, I'm sure that's all there is to it. Simple, efficient, pay some bills, do cool stuff in your free time. Not a bad set up.

    For me, it's a lot more spiritual than that, but I find spiritual influence in most things I do.
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    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    It's hard to focus on higher things when you don't have enough to eat and are constantly on the edge of eviction or whatever. So I think it is a sort of baseline.

    And a person working hard at something that they are really well-suited to do that they find fulfilling. I think there is something (spiritual?) to that. Some would call it "flow" perhaps?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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    Blame it all on the evil Gnostic Demiurge, the almighty Architect of everything at our level of existence (and it was making it the way it is now that was the greatest sin of all in our universe)!

    Such a power must be replaced if this treachery is to be undone!

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    Philosophical, sure: you wonder how suburbia has alerted history, how adults would turn out if their entire education were outdoors: history freezes the living.

    Our attachment to self survival/preservation seems exaggerated and could be scaled back.

    thinking of you

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think all work that doesn't cause harm and most things are both spiritual and mundane. One of the scriptures I aspire to live by talks about working for a living:

    And to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
    1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (New International Version)

    Of course, I haven't worked regularly for money for most of my adult life, but I've done a lot of less than glorious unpaid work while my husband has done the working for a living thing for all of us. Taking care of other people is spiritual to me, even when it's cleaning a poopy diaper and doesn't feel spiritual at all.
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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Philosophical and spiritual? I'd say no. It's more than a means to an end however.

    Best to think of your job as part of an overall career and not just work. I think work is something you should enjoy. I can think of few things that would be worse than to be subject to performing tasks/activities all day long that you don't like day after day for year after year. I think a lot of this is about attitude vs. what you are specifically doing though.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think all work that doesn't cause harm and most things are both spiritual and mundane. One of the scriptures I aspire to live by talks about working for a living:

    And to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
    1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (New International Version)

    Of course, I haven't worked regularly for money for most of my adult life, but I've done a lot of less than glorious unpaid work while my husband has done the working for a living thing for all of us. Taking care of other people is spiritual to me, even when it's cleaning a poopy diaper and doesn't feel spiritual at all.
    The kind of work you do could be spiritual. Sometimes I'm challenged with the translating verbiage in the bible to something meaningful today. We miss the context of the time and it can be extremely difficult to interpret some of the language without understanding that context. Of course, we don't work literally with our hands as much anymore. We should be using our talents and abilities to our best though. To mind your own business - I think that's a difficult one because if you are in a leadership position, you can't really do that. It sounds like something written by a philosopher without a lot of real world work experience. I could try to turn it into something insightful but it's difficult to do that because even 2000 years ago, it doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you did manual labor for someone else. A quiet life? Yes - I think to eliminate hurry in our lives is probably one of the most important things we can do.

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The kind of work you do could be spiritual. Sometimes I'm challenged with the translating verbiage in the bible to something meaningful today. We miss the context of the time and it can be extremely difficult to interpret some of the language without understanding that context. Of course, we don't work literally with our hands as much anymore. We should be using our talents and abilities to our best though. To mind your own business - I think that's a difficult one because if you are in a leadership position, you can't really do that. It sounds like something written by a philosopher without a lot of real world work experience. I could try to turn it into something insightful but it's difficult to do that because even 2000 years ago, it doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you did manual labor for someone else. A quiet life? Yes - I think to eliminate hurry in our lives is probably one of the most important things we can do.
    I think my brain automatically makes those adjustments. May be part of why I am a sucky Evangelical, lol.

    I think there is a difference between leading and needless or malicious meddling. And one has a duty to protect the defenseless when one can, but a lot of people get bent out of shape by silly stuff that isn't hurting them or anyone else. I think we're better off when we let that stuff go.

    Any work that is useful is honorable, IMO. Work that brings harm is dishonorable. Doesn't matter if you're in a cubicle or picking rocks out of a field, IMO.

    Sometimes things aren't so black and white as that: my husband's work is useful: he helps transport food to restaurants and nursing homes and other businesses. On the one hand, he's helping feed people. On the other hand, the truck is damaging the environment, the food isn't locally grown and a lot of it is probably unhealthy. But with his earnings, we have a place to live, food to eat and other good things and we try to help others out, too. So just like everything else in life, you do the best you can.

    I don't know. I think my attitude is a reflection, to some degree, of being working class. You hear a lot about how work should be fulfilling and how, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life, etc. That strikes me as kind of stupid and middle-classy self-help book crap. There are just too many things that need doing in any community that really almost cannot be fulfilling in and of themselves. The people that do those kinds of jobs are freeing others up to do 'fulfilling' work and, to me, those doing fulfilling work more or less stand upon the shoulders of those who do the needful, but less fulfilling tasks and deserve respect and appreciation for that work. Myself, I don't mind mundane work as long as I'm not treated like crap for doing it. For me, people's attitudes have been the thing that has stolen my feeling of fulfillment from my work rather than the work itself. I try not to do that to other people.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #9
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    The problem of industrial society is over production, and our solution is to pay us to consume.

    So we pay the military to consume, and we pay health, education and welfare to consume.

    But we are moving from an industrial society based on print to an electronic society.

    And in an electronic society we are paid in attention. (See, you are paying me attention right now).

    However just as over production was the problem in an industrial society, an over supply of attention is the problem in an electronic society. Everyone and their dog can seek attention on the internet, and do. And those with the most attention win, and are called celebrities.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What are your thoughts about earning a living, is there a philosophical and spiritual side to it or is it just a means to another end?
    Bit of both. I like the hedgehog concept. (Mouse over and google for more info)

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