Earning a living

[Lark]

What are your thoughts about earning a living, is there a philosophical and spiritual side to it or is it just a means to another end?

 

[kyuuei]

I used to think it was just a 'meh' thing. But I think the spiritual and philosophical side to it what you define as 'earn your living'. Just making money and paying bills? For some, I'm sure that's all there is to it. Simple, efficient, pay some bills, do cool stuff in your free time. Not a bad set up.

For me, it's a lot more spiritual than that, but I find spiritual influence in most things I do.

 

[gromit]

It's hard to focus on higher things when you don't have enough to eat and are constantly on the edge of eviction or whatever. So I think it is a sort of baseline.

And a person working hard at something that they are really well-suited to do that they find fulfilling. I think there is something (spiritual?) to that. Some would call it "flow" perhaps?

 

[RaptorWizard]

Blame it all on the evil Gnostic Demiurge, the almighty Architect of everything at our level of existence (and it was making it the way it is now that was the greatest sin of all in our universe)!

Such a power must be replaced if this treachery is to be undone!

 

[sleuthiness]

Philosophical, sure: you wonder how suburbia has alerted history, how adults would turn out if their entire education were outdoors: history freezes the living.

Our attachment to self survival/preservation seems exaggerated and could be scaled back.

 

[cafe]

I think all work that doesn't cause harm and most things are both spiritual and mundane. One of the scriptures I aspire to live by talks about working for a living:

And to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.​

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (New International Version)​

Of course, I haven't worked regularly for money for most of my adult life, but I've done a lot of less than glorious unpaid work while my husband has done the working for a living thing for all of us. Taking care of other people is spiritual to me, even when it's cleaning a poopy diaper and doesn't feel spiritual at all.

 

[highlander]

Philosophical and spiritual? I'd say no. It's more than a means to an end however.

Best to think of your job as part of an overall career and not just work. I think work is something you should enjoy. I can think of few things that would be worse than to be subject to performing tasks/activities all day long that you don't like day after day for year after year. I think a lot of this is about attitude vs. what you are specifically doing though.

I think all work that doesn't cause harm and most things are both spiritual and mundane. One of the scriptures I aspire to live by talks about working for a living:

And to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.​

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 (New International Version)​

Of course, I haven't worked regularly for money for most of my adult life, but I've done a lot of less than glorious unpaid work while my husband has done the working for a living thing for all of us. Taking care of other people is spiritual to me, even when it's cleaning a poopy diaper and doesn't feel spiritual at all.

The kind of work you do could be spiritual. Sometimes I'm challenged with the translating verbiage in the bible to something meaningful today. We miss the context of the time and it can be extremely difficult to interpret some of the language without understanding that context. Of course, we don't work literally with our hands as much anymore. We should be using our talents and abilities to our best though. To mind your own business - I think that's a difficult one because if you are in a leadership position, you can't really do that. It sounds like something written by a philosopher without a lot of real world work experience. I could try to turn it into something insightful but it's difficult to do that because even 2000 years ago, it doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you did manual labor for someone else. A quiet life? Yes - I think to eliminate hurry in our lives is probably one of the most important things we can do.

 

[cafe]

The kind of work you do could be spiritual. Sometimes I'm challenged with the translating verbiage in the bible to something meaningful today. We miss the context of the time and it can be extremely difficult to interpret some of the language without understanding that context. Of course, we don't work literally with our hands as much anymore. We should be using our talents and abilities to our best though. To mind your own business - I think that's a difficult one because if you are in a leadership position, you can't really do that. It sounds like something written by a philosopher without a lot of real world work experience. I could try to turn it into something insightful but it's difficult to do that because even 2000 years ago, it doesn't make a lot of sense, unless you did manual labor for someone else. A quiet life? Yes - I think to eliminate hurry in our lives is probably one of the most important things we can do.

I think my brain automatically makes those adjustments. May be part of why I am a sucky Evangelical, lol.

I think there is a difference between leading and needless or malicious meddling. And one has a duty to protect the defenseless when one can, but a lot of people get bent out of shape by silly stuff that isn't hurting them or anyone else. I think we're better off when we let that stuff go.

Any work that is useful is honorable, IMO. Work that brings harm is dishonorable. Doesn't matter if you're in a cubicle or picking rocks out of a field, IMO.

Sometimes things aren't so black and white as that: my husband's work is useful: he helps transport food to restaurants and nursing homes and other businesses. On the one hand, he's helping feed people. On the other hand, the truck is damaging the environment, the food isn't locally grown and a lot of it is probably unhealthy. But with his earnings, we have a place to live, food to eat and other good things and we try to help others out, too. So just like everything else in life, you do the best you can.

I don't know. I think my attitude is a reflection, to some degree, of being working class. You hear a lot about how work should be fulfilling and how, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life, etc. That strikes me as kind of stupid and middle-classy self-help book crap. There are just too many things that need doing in any community that really almost cannot be fulfilling in and of themselves. The people that do those kinds of jobs are freeing others up to do 'fulfilling' work and, to me, those doing fulfilling work more or less stand upon the shoulders of those who do the needful, but less fulfilling tasks and deserve respect and appreciation for that work. Myself, I don't mind mundane work as long as I'm not treated like crap for doing it. For me, people's attitudes have been the thing that has stolen my feeling of fulfillment from my work rather than the work itself. I try not to do that to other people.

 

[Mole]

The problem of industrial society is over production, and our solution is to pay us to consume.

So we pay the military to consume, and we pay health, education and welfare to consume.

But we are moving from an industrial society based on print to an electronic society.

And in an electronic society we are paid in attention. (See, you are paying me attention right now).

However just as over production was the problem in an industrial society, an over supply of attention is the problem in an electronic society. Everyone and their dog can seek attention on the internet, and do. And those with the most attention win, and are called celebrities.

 

[wolfy]

What are your thoughts about earning a living, is there a philosophical and spiritual side to it or is it just a means to another end?

Bit of both. I like the hedgehog concept. (Mouse over and google for more info)

 

[WhoCares]

What are your thoughts about earning a living, is there a philosophical and spiritual side to it or is it just a means to another end?

I used to think the ultimate in life was to not work. Then it happened that I was able to do this for entire year. It got old real quick. The simple fact is humans are curious and must get their stimulation somehow, striving for something works in that regard, permanent vacation does not. So, since we must do something with an achievable end and some amount of striving involved, we might as well do it with as much
enjoyment as possible. This is where the spiritual aspect comes in....

We can choose the living death which is an occupation that sucks dogs balls. This occupation is usually the one people settle on to earn the cash to pay the man. It is spiritually devoid because the point of the job is striving for money which is always unfulfilling even if it seems needful.

We can choose an occupation that provides appropriate stimulus in life, feeds our interests and just so happens to pay the bills as well.

I'm currently in the former, earning $100k per year. Let me tell you, no amount of $$ makes up for the soul destroying experience which is purely earning money. Happily I foresaw this situation and have diligently saved, plotted and set myself up to the point where I can now retire. I will not hold another job.

My choice is now to do what feeds my soul. While I will no longer work for others I will work long and arduous days doing what stimulates me and brings in money too. I have no intention of ever going on permanent vacation in this lifetime. Studies have shown that people who do so usually die within 5yrs. Boredom gets them in the end. Work is spiritual because it prevents the comatose existence which is the pervading thought that you are somehow redundant or useless.

Just remember though, no-one said you had to do something that makes you want to poke your eyeballs with a fork, just to earn money.

 

[Lark]

What way do you feel when you hear people talking about being choosey about employment, ie stating that they will not do x,y,z and I'm not talking prostitution or hit man career choices here, I'm talking I will not clean, take out trash, stack shelves for a living, when they can not afford to be choosey, ie not qualified for anything different, not willing to get qualifications for anything else?

Philosophically I think that our present culture reveres wealth, possessing and spending wealth but there's a disconnect between that and earning it in the first place. There's still less thought about what way to earn it, ie what sort of work is good work and why, what if it is unavailable etc.

 

[Giggly]

It's hard to focus on higher things when you don't have enough to eat and are constantly on the edge of eviction or whatever. So I think it is a sort of baseline.

And a person working hard at something that they are really well-suited to do that they find fulfilling. I think there is something (spiritual?) to that. Some would call it "flow" perhaps?

This. I think for some it's a means to an end- Some more tolerable than others. And for others it's more spiritual, philosophical, or even emotional. I used to do something I loved for work but I stopped and just do it for fun/as needed now because I didn't make enough money doing it. I also always wish I were more talented in the arts. I would love to do that for work.

 

[Such Irony]

Sometimes I feel like I wasn't made for the work world. I enjoy the idea behind my job but with every job I've ever had, I've had to deal with bureaucracy, difficult co-workers, difficult customers, and a sense of inadequacy.

I sometimes wish I didn't have to work at all. But then I'd feel guilty if I just sat on my ass all day without contributing anything meaningful to society.

 

[highlander]

You hear a lot about how work should be fulfilling and how, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life, etc. That strikes me as kind of stupid and middle-classy self-help book crap. There are just too many things that need doing in any community that really almost cannot be fulfilling in and of themselves.

It doesn't have to be that way. I see a number of people who are above doing particular kinds of work. Usually they are unemployed. Any kind of productive work can be fulfilling. When I was in college, part of my first job was mopping floors. I enjoyed that. I took some pride in doing it well and also worked to get it done quickly. At another job in a warehouse, I worked with a guy who was going to be a lawyer. He didn't want to be doing the work. He viewed it as menial labor. He was kind of lazy and said in the big picture, this job was meaningless so why work at it? I had a lot more fun with it though his attitude was a bit of a drag. I worked hard, I enjoyed the people there and I liked getting things done. My present job/career is much more challenging and financially rewarding. I get to use my brain, have an impact as a leader of teams, generate business through being entrepreneurial and all kinds of good stuff.

 

[Mole]

Doing and Being

The Protestant Work Ethic and Capitalism have a lot to answer for.

But most of us aren't Protestant and aren't Capitalists, and yet we don't have our own Ethic of Being, nor do we have our own Economy.

The Protestant Work Ethic and Capitalism have given us doing, while being goes begging.

Why, when I go to a party they always ask me, what do you do? I feel bemused, a little lost, but I pull myself together and say, I don't need to justify my being.

So am I one of the lost, or one of the just? How can I justify my being? Gosh, they tell me I can be justified through alienated work. But I tell them, alienated work makes me an alien, when I just want to be comfortable in my own skin.

 

[21%]

It depends on what gives you meaning in life. If that thing happens to be able to provide enough for you to live on in the lifestyle you choose, that's the best. If not, well, there's not much choice and you're stuck with your meaningless day job.

For me, I steer away from things that make me feel horrible, and I'm doing something that is part commercial and part education. I can live with that. At times it can also be quite fulfilling.

 

[cafe]

It doesn't have to be that way. I see a number of people who are above doing particular kinds of work. Usually they are unemployed. Any kind of productive work can be fulfilling. When I was in college, part of my first job was mopping floors. I enjoyed that. I took some pride in doing it well and also worked to get it done quickly. At another job in a warehouse, I worked with a guy who was going to be a lawyer. He didn't want to be doing the work. He viewed it as menial labor. He was kind of lazy and said in the big picture, this job was meaningless so why work at it? I had a lot more fun with it though his attitude was a bit of a drag. I worked hard, I enjoyed the people there and I liked getting things done. My present job/career is much more challenging and financially rewarding. I get to use my brain, have an impact as a leader of teams, generate business through being entrepreneurial and all kinds of good stuff.

Yeah, some of it is about attitude. I think, perhaps too, some of it is about situation. There are a lot of people who mop floors or work in warehouses their whole lives. There is fulfillment to be had in a job well done, certainly. But the devaluation of such work by folks like your warehouse co-worker can have a negative impact on the degree to which those jobs are fulfilling and unfortunately, I think our society has absorbed an attitude like his more than it has yours.

I liked the job I had cleaning the bathrooms and floors at a department store. I could clean toilets all day and not really mind, especially if I can listen to a book while I'm doing it. It was dealing with the people who treated me badly because I was cleaning their toilets that made it unpleasant. Of course, if the money and benefits I earned from that job was all I had to live on instead of it being supplemental, I suspect my level of enjoyment would have been substantially reduced.