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  1. #1
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    Default Can a soul that's created anew carry the 'Adamic sin'?

    One of St. Augustine's concerns (later mentioned by Bertrand Russell) is that
    -if it is the soul that sins, and
    -the soul is not transmitted,
    -how is it possible for a soul created anew to inherit the 'Adamic sin'?
    Isn't the soul that's created anew clean, pure, untained? If it is, and it is not transmitted, then it shouldn't carry the "Adamic sin"!
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    Senior Member autumn's Avatar
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    Guilty of it? No.
    Affected by its repercussions? Definitely.
    Very important distinction for a very important question!

    autumn

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    I am not very familiar with this subject matter, so could you please explain what is meant when you use the word "transmitted"? Do you mean passed down from before, like an inheritance? Because if that is what you meant, then yes, it would seem that the concept of "Adamic sin" is irreconcilable with the belief that the soul is not transmitted.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    When you say 'created anew' do you mean a newborn child or a converted soul?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    When you say 'created anew' do you mean a newborn child or a converted soul?
    Wouldn't a converted soul have already sinned?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Yes, but if I understand correctly, there are Wesleyan lines of thought in which an act of grace (Sanctification) removes the Adamic sin nature. In essence, the soul is purified or reborn. I was unsure if maybe this belief had roots in older theological thought.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    But that's the whole question, isn't it? If a soul is reborn as pure and untainted (either a new soul or one that has undergone "sanctification"), then we can't believe in Adamic sin at all because it would have been sin transmitted from Adam to all new souls. Or at least this is my understanding of "Adamic sin".
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    I guess I don't see why the reborn soul has to have the same taint as the original. Why do they have to be of exactly the same nature? They are not transfered in the same way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Well I always thought the idea of the doctrine was that all people are supposedly born sinners because of the sins of the first people, namely Adam and Eve, and that this was the reason for the whole Jesus sacrifice drama. If a soul were no longer inherently sinful (aka it did not inherit Adam's sins) then it would have no need of preemptive saving (meaning Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross to save the sins of future people).

    However, as it pertains to the OP, this belief is incompatible with the belief that the soul is not transmitted.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    If one follows a traducianist line of thinking, then it is somewhat easier to explain how original sin is transmitted...

    1) Adam is the first man and Eve the first woman.

    2) All of humanity today is somehow (genetically, 'bodily') descended from Adam and Eve.

    3) The body and soul of each human being are generated simultaneously.

    EDIT: 3a) The body somehow passes on its sinful taint to the soul at the time of generation.

    4) Thus, the bodily inheritance of original sin is transmitted to the soul generation after generation with every human being on earth.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Problems arise though... can the soul be tainted by the body? What about all those human beings from 'different tribes' who suddenly popped up (we first see them shortly after Adam and Eve leave the garden)? Wouldn't they escape original sin? Etc. etc. etc.

    Logically speaking, the Bible's very shoddy on these sorts of questions. Though then again, the New Testament's sort of like a clean slate, theologically, and can be used to contradict much of what goes in the Old Testament, since Jesus' covenant is the covenant to end all covenants, as it were. Haven't read much OT or NT for a while, so excuse my rank amateurism.
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

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