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  1. #11
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    But if the soul is bound up with the body in creation, then shouldn't it cease to exist when the body does as well?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    But if the soul is bound up with the body in creation, then shouldn't it cease to exist when the body does as well?
    Perhaps the "soul" at the time of death is "backed up" in the memory of God? In other words, he remembers perfectly everything about how we are at the moment of death, enabling him to recreate a new "us" in an identical state to the old "us".

    I don't actually believe that. Just thought it was an interesting albeit done-to-death concept.

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Perhaps the "soul" at the time of death is "backed up" in the memory of God? In other words, he remembers perfectly everything about how we are at the moment of death, enabling him to recreate a new "us" in an identical state to the old "us".

    I don't actually believe that. Just thought it was an interesting albeit done-to-death concept.
    Recreating us in flesh or in soul?
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  4. #14
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Recreating us in flesh or in soul?
    Recreating us in flesh.

    Edit: Or in soul. Maybe our "soul" is currently bound up in our flesh. Generated by it. But could it be replicated independently of flesh?

  5. #15
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Recreating us in flesh.
    Oh, like reincarnation? I think that would count as what the OP was calling "transmittance". And yeah, if we believed in that sort of thing, then the passing on of Adam's sins would make more sense.

    Edit: Well, if our souls outlived our bodies (or existed independently of them) then it wouldn't need to be recreated.
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  6. #16
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    But if the soul is bound up with the body in creation, then shouldn't it cease to exist when the body does as well?
    Only if you assume some strong form of mind-body supervenience.

    But God has the power to sustain spiritual existence apart from physical existence/physical states.

    While it is natural for humans to exist with bodies, it is not necessary for a human to exist with a body. Or, to put it another way, destroying a human body, (i.e., causing the body to become medically dead), harms the person but does not destroy the person.

  7. #17
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Only if you assume some strong form of mind-body supervenience.

    But God has the power to sustain spiritual existence apart from physical existence/physical states.

    While it is natural for humans to exist with bodies, it is not necessary for a human to exist with a body. Or, to put it another way, destroying a human body, (i.e., causing the body to become medically dead), harms the person but does not destroy the person.
    So then would souls exist before they are embodied? If this is the case, then the "traducianist" argument would be undermined, as Adam's sins would not have been transferred to the soul from the body.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh, like reincarnation? I think that would count as what the OP was calling "transmittance". And yeah, if we believed in that sort of thing, then the passing on of Adam's sins would make more sense.
    No. Reincarnation is when the same soul inhabits a different body. I'm talking about the recreation of a new but identical body and soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Edit: Well, if our souls outlived our bodies (or existed independently of them) then it wouldn't need to be recreated.
    Not "outlived". That would imply continuity. I mean an end to soul and body. And then a recreation of a new but identical soul without the body which originally generated it. And without the ability to sin, I guess.

    If it seems irrelevant to the argument at hand, it's because it is. Just a thought I had. Sorry. Let me finish my drink, have a smoke, and then I'll see if I have anything meaningful to contribute.

  9. #19
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    So then would souls exist before they are embodied? If this is the case, then the "traducianist" argument would be undermined, as Adam's sins would not have been transferred to the soul from the body.
    As far as I know, every human soul that has come into being came into being simultaneously with the body it is related to. Not that it's logically impossible for a human soul to come into being first, but that would be unnatural.

    The only being I know that has the power to bring a human soul into existence without a body is God, but God wouldn't do that because he's infinitely good.

    I'm not familiar with the "traducianist" argument, but, based on Samuel's thread, I don't think its conclusion follows from its premises.

  10. #20
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    As far as I know, every human soul that has come into being came into being simultaneously with the body it is related to. Not that it's logically impossible for a human soul to come into being first, but that would be unnatural.

    The only being I know that has the power to bring a human soul into existence without a body is God, but God wouldn't do that because he's infinitely good.

    I'm not familiar with the "traducianist" argument, but, based on Samuel's thread, I don't think its conclusion follows from its premises.
    1.) Why would the creation of a soul without the body be bad?

    2.) I am not familiar with that argument either, I was also going by Samuel's post. And no, it doesn't make sense that because a soul is created simultaneously with the body that it should inherit Adam's sin.

    3.) What are your views on the OP's question?
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