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  1. #61
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Newby, let me ask you a question:

    What was the purpose of creating this thread? In other words, are you depending on the debates in this thread to determine what religious course you will set your life upon?
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #62
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I know there is prostitution in Muslim countries, but it is nothing like the U.S.

    As far as the rape/ torture thing, you are putting one extreme example out there into the box with all Muslims?

    I am pretty sure the religion doesn't condone murdering someone for being raped. I am not at all agreeing to it, but you should consider why that rare problem arises. If you look at the values in their culture, you can see why people are so disturbed over it. Women are held to being the ultimate matriarchal figure, who are kept clean and pure and they do place a lot of responsibility on her not to be in a situation that it could happen. Of course nobody's plans to protect their self from such cruelty are 100% fool proof and the guy should be punished. But again, we don't know enough about it to be the basis for making harsh statements about Islam.
    I do not make "statements" about Islam, but statements about Dubai and Saudi Arabia.

    Read me more closely. And no, rapes are not "a rare occurence" there. They're so commonplace that they are in fact one the major danger women face while travelling there.
    In these Arabic societies, only a few men get half of the avalaible women. And the vast majority of men gets none. The sexual imbalance is extreme, so no wonder what could happen after, no wonder how sexually frustrated males are.

    On a side note, it also explains why inside the Arabian peninsula the genetic disease prevalence is the highest in the world.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #63
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I know there is prostitution in Muslim countries, but it is nothing like the U.S.
    Well, prostitution is everywhere, even within the Muslim countries I've lived in. I'd even dare to say that you see prostitution happening more frequently in Casablanca, Dakar, Tehran, Dubai or Marrakesh than in Paris.
    Of course, depending on your social circles, it is more or less obvious.

    It's just that the common people don't want to see it, because most of the prostitutes are trying to aim for the rich, middle-aged or elderly men. So when you look rich and wealthy (bonus points awarded if you own a fancy sport car), you get harassed by prostitutes almost every day in those countries, while in Paris it would almost never happen.

    Hypocrisy is also everywhere!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #64
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Newby,

    I apologize in advance. I may say some things you don't want to hear. I am going to tell you what's in my heart and am more concerned with being honest with you than I am with sparing your feelings. I'm going to open up to you and be very vulnerable in the process. You may despise me when I'm done, BUT I must say what I perceive to be the right thing.

    Therefore, I'm going to go back to your original post. Also, before continuing on,[EJCC] has given you some really sensible advice. [Blackmail]has spoken from actual experience. I have spent time in a Muslim community and I'm telling you that he/she makes a lot of sense. I worked with Muslims in college, tutoring students from Morocco and I tell you that [Blackmail]speaks the truth. Just really consider that. In all of the Muslims I met during that time, only one of them had a compassionate heart and that one was an American girl from Indiana who had joined because she wanted to find a place where she "belonged". Pretty soon she was married, had three kids and felt like she was imprisoned. She eventually got a divorce and I haven't heard from her since. She was allowed a divorce because she was living in Indiana as opposed to a Muslim country. She was not treated well by other women in the community and nothing she could ever do could make her as "good" as them, because she was a White American. I don't know what became of her after her divorce. She started trying to promote Progressive Islam and Women's Rights and I became afraid for her safety to be quite honest with you. Just consider these things. Now, I want to go back to your original post and answer it, point by point. I may not give you the answer you want to hear, but will give you an honest answer. I will tell you my true opinion and I will also tell you that many people have done so on this post. You have been given several pieces of very sound advice.

    You say:
    I was raised Christian and have been a serious believer all of my life,
    So,

    Let me ask you, what do you mean by a serious believer?

    And,

    up until two years ago I have been questioning my faith,
    What do you mean by questioning your faith?

    Has God let you down? Or just a group of people who go to church?

    When you say faith, are you referring to your belief in God? Or in Jesus? Or in the Bible? Or are you referring to what people call the structure of Christianity, organized religion?

    I’m not trying to be nit-picky but I’m asking questions to help you filter through this and to help myself understand where you’re coming from.

    but have not completely let go or ruled out that Christ was miraculous and the son of God.
    Then you are not Muslim material. You cannot believe that Jesus was the anointed one who came to redeem us from spiritual slavery, because Islam teaches that he was a good teacher and that he did not have the power to break the yoke of spiritual slavery upon human lives. The same power that allowed him to break those bonds was the same power by which he raised the dead and healed the sick. That is WHY he did those things, to demonstrate why he had actually come into this world. Religion is humanity’s attempt to win God’s approval, no matter what name it wears. It is the belief that keeping rules and rituals makes one right with God. Rules and rituals can never make a person right with God. They only grant a false sense of security. Jesus came to set people FREE from religion’s laws.

    One of the main reasons why I want to become Muslim, is because I feel like the Christian community has failed me and I am drawn to how disciplined Muslims are.
    As a Christian, your trust should not be in a community of people who label themselves Christian, but rather in what Jesus accomplished through his death, burial and resurrection. Lots of people are called Christian, but that does not mean they actually have a relationship with God. For some, it’s merely a cultural thing or a political thing. If you have had a personal relationship with God through believing that the things Jesus said and did were true, then it is much harder to walk away. It would be like leaving your first love, because such a relationship is ruled by love, not the keeping of rules or the acceptance of a community or the way a community makes you ‘feel’. A relationship with God is not based on feelings but on trust, on belief that he is who he says he is. It’s built on faith and hope. And what someone else does, how they respond to us, should not affect our walk with God. As someone else pointed out, if you honestly think all Muslims are disciplined, spiritual and dedicated, you haven’t met many. They’re just like everybody else. Some of them are just going through the motions.

    I think I would feel safe and covered by Islam.
    Why?
    Why would you need a “group” to make you feel safe and covered?
    Why do you want to feel covered? If the power of the eternal God living inside your mortal body isn’t enough to make you feel covered then surely no religious institution can do the job.

    I have done some reading. I am afraid that if I don't become part of a community that takes their life seriously.

    It seems like you’re really saying that you want to be a part of something bigger than yourself, something that goes beyond the here and now. I suggest two things: praying and asking God to help you find your place in this world and also, start searching out people who are doing things, but above all, learn to be content in your own relationship with God. Spend time praying. Talk to him like he’s your best friend. And throw out all preconceived notions and read the Bible for yourself. Start in the New Testament. The writings of John are a great place.

    Is my reasoning for considering becoming Muslim not good?
    Bluntly and honestly, no, not according to this, they’re not.

    Would I be unwelcomed for the concerns I mentioned, including the fact that I can't go as far as denouncing Christ?
    Most likely. But don’t worry. Someone would come along and disciple you and help you “unbelieve” if you want it badly enough.

    Okay, at this point, I'm going to read your response to my other post and answer it.

    Also, please consider that when I respond to a post and put myself truly into it, it may take me two hours to craft exactly what I want to say, because I want to say something that is actually going to benefit you and not to waste your time. It's ultimately up to you what you choose, but do really think about and pray about the things that have been posted here on your behalf and realize that people who don't even know you, are actually showing you brotherly kindness in giving such concern to their responses.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #65
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Well, I did type out a reply, but it's very long. haha...so, if you want to discuss it further, please just send me a private message and I'll merit it out in small doses.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I do not make "statements" about Islam, but statements about Dubai and Saudi Arabia.

    Read me more closely. And no, rapes are not "a rare occurence" there. They're so commonplace that they are in fact one the major danger women face while travelling there.
    In these Arabic societies, only a few men get half of the avalaible women. And the vast majority of men gets none. The sexual imbalance is extreme, so no wonder what could happen after, no wonder how sexually frustrated males are.

    On a side note, it also explains why inside the Arabian peninsula the genetic disease prevalence is the highest in the world.
    Most Muslims do not marry more than one woman. Rape is not from sexual frustration and rape it not near as common there as it is here in the United States.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Well, prostitution is everywhere, even within the Muslim countries I've lived in. I'd even dare to say that you see prostitution happening more frequently in Casablanca, Dakar, Tehran, Dubai or Marrakesh than in Paris.
    Of course, depending on your social circles, it is more or less obvious.

    It's just that the common people don't want to see it, because most of the prostitutes are trying to aim for the rich, middle-aged or elderly men. So when you look rich and wealthy (bonus points awarded if you own a fancy sport car), you get harassed by prostitutes almost every day in those countries, while in Paris it would almost never happen.

    Hypocrisy is also everywhere!
    If prostitution is so frequent then how can there be so much rape and why would a woman get stoned for being raped?

  8. #68
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Most Muslims do not marry more than one woman.
    True. In many muslim countries, polygamy is almost non existent (Morocco or Turkey, for instance).

    But once again I was referring to Dubai and Saudi Arabia, because within the Arabian peninsula the situation is wildly different.
    And that's why the only polygamists you will find in Morocco will be wahhabites -and this also explain why wahhabites are considered "crazy" there-.

    There's lot of contrasts within the muslim world.

    Rape is not from sexual frustration and rape it not near as common there as it is here in the United States.
    But it is very common, and obviously way more common than what you think it is. And if you don't believe me, since you claim to be a woman, just try to walk alone in Dubai past 9pm. In many ways, muslim societies are often much more obsessed by sex than the Western or the Asian world.

    Official or governmental statistics may try to hide, to deny or to conceal it, but if you have really lived over there, then it's not that difficult to understand what is really going on.

    For instance when a rich aristocrat (or a muslim cleric) rape one of his servants, it is not considered to be a true "rape", but a totally "acceptable" behavior. But indeed, sometimes (rarely) they get caught, at least in Morocco. But never in Dubai.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    True. In many muslim countries, polygamy is almost non existent (Morocco or Turkey, for instance).

    But once again I was referring to Dubai and Saudi Arabia, because within the Arabian peninsula the situation is wildly different.
    And that's why the only polygamists you will find in Morocco will be wahhabites -and this also explain why wahhabites are considered "crazy" there-.

    There's lot of contrasts within the muslim world.



    But it is very common, and obviously way more common than what you think it is. And if you don't believe me, just try to walk alone in Dubai past 9pm. In many ways, muslim societies are often much more obsessed by sex than the Western or the Asian world.

    Official or governmental statistics may try to hide, to deny or to conceal it, but if you have really lived over there, then it's not that difficult to understand what is really going on.

    For instance when a rich aristocrat (or a muslim cleric) rape one of his servants, it is not considered to be a true "rape", but a totally "acceptable" behavior. But indeed, sometimes (rarely) they get caught, at least in Morocco. But never in Dubai.
    Okay, this is getting more and more ridiculous.

  10. #70
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    If prostitution is so frequent then how can there be so much rape and why would a woman get stoned for being raped?
    The answer is: class justice and class struggle. Whether you are poor or rich, the laws won't be the same even if they pretend they are. And very often, when rapists aren't aristocrats or wealthy men, they are policemen themselves. Dubai policemen often target foreign women from poorer countries than theirs, take their passports and feel so entitled to rape them in the police station. For instance, the Moroccan authorities officially complained plenty of times about the way Moroccan women were treated in Dubai, and you had dozens of rape cases. It got to the point where even the king of Morocco threatened to cut part of their official diplomatic relationships with the UAE a few years ago.

    Within those countries -where you do not have a true state of law-, any person who has a theoretical power over you or who benefits from a potential legal immunity can be a potential rapist.

    On the other hand, whenever even an embryonic form of state of law emerges (Turkey for instance), the real rape rate suddenly decreases.

    So it's not really related to religion, but to politics and local culture.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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